Top Tier picks

[darrelljs]

Unrestricted you have Flauros in BTS ftw. If you can keep them dry.

Darrell

[DaveV]

A lot depends on map size and settings. For a small map, give me Jonas (see game 4), Charadon (see game 9), Auric (see game 1), or Tasunke (see game 18 - not a small map, but imagine if it had been!). On a larger map where there's time to grab later techs, Keelyn and Flauros are head and shoulders above the rest, IMO. I'd argue that Perpentach is right up there with the top tier, too.

[Ellimist]

On a larger map where there's time to grab later techs, Keelyn and Flauros are head and shoulders above the rest, IMO. I'd argue that Perpentach is right up there with the top tier, too.

Perpentach is definitely a strong leader, there aren't very many trait combinations he can get that are truly bad. He gets three at a time and will never get the minor traits like Barbarian, Summoner, or Ingenuity.

In some ways, the fact that the traits change periodically is even a benefit. The difficulty with him is that you can't rely on anything. Adaptability is mandatory, and you'll probably take an unfocused tech path. Particularly if you want to take advantage of shifting discounts on buildings.

[kjn]

And while Varn himself is the single best leader in the game, I'd argue his civ is merely mediocre-to-good. There's the desert-floodplains-financial synergy. Disciple units aren't power units like Vampires or Summoner Puppets or Pyre Zombies, they require a good deal of finesse to use correctly.

Agreed. Though that's another thing: potency lightbringers break the upgrade system.

Want march, sentry & mobility rangers? No problem!
Want instant potency, sentry & mobility mages? No problem!

Especially the latter makes Varn into a better magical leader than the ones that have arcane in the first place.

[darrelljs]

Summoner

.

Darrell

[Bobchillingworth]

For regular FFH, Keelyn is probably the only leader who is in the God Tier. 20 Adepts with Death I can have 40 puppets and 60 skeletons out at a time. You can easily spam so many units with her that it is literally impossible to fight back- opponents can chew through dozens a turn at 99% odds and never have a chance to break through to the actual spellcasters. And puppets make the Balseraphs assassin-proof. This is not getting into the fact that she has a massive freaking happy cap thanks to cheap carnivals + freak shows + the various slave cages + halls of mirrors.



Personally, I think that Decius is a fantastic Calabim leader, but I'm pretty sure that I'm the only person here who likes him better than Flauros Either way, he's still top-class when leading the Calabim, even if Flauros is better.




For EitB, Flauros is a lot worse, but a couple leaders got huge boosts. Falamar is now Exp and Charismatic and Adaptive, which makes him exceedingly strong (def. top tier), although he is held back by the Lanun being as mediocre a civ as ever. Mardoc will probably disagree stridently with me here, but Sandalphon seems to be outright brokenly good at present, although that probably has a lot more to do with wanes being easier to grab than his traits (Philo and Ind, IIRC).




For either mod, Sheelba is very powerful, but she takes a very long time to set up. Probably not top-tier for starts at the earliest era, but I would say she's unquestionably so for anything more advanced.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

Are Lanun really that mediocre? Their forte is a rapid economy that let's them hit military techs sooner. Their only real downside are the gimped champions, which dissuades them from meaty units like champions. They still get horse archers, they still get priests, they still get still get musketmen.

I still like Flauros because of the synergy between FIN and aristofarms letting you get quick vampires.

[Bobchillingworth]

Doesn't having no military advantages (and a couple weaknesses- lousy heroes and no knights in addition to the champs issue) qualify them as "mediocre"? They aren't a bad civ, just not a really good one.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

Didn't know about the no knights. And there are worse heroes out there (cf. Teutorix ).

So, they really just lack for strong high-strength meaty units.

[Mist]

There's another problem with Launun, let's call it the Mardoc syndrome ( see pbem 3 ). Even assuming you get a map with decent amount of coast / coves to put up ( not a given ), you still end up with a food heavy civilization with fantastic research rate that has absolutely no way of actually manufacturing those shiny advanced units. Whip sucks, cash rushing is expensive, you can only draft nerfed champions or longbows that are way off your usual tech path. This is a world away from luxuries of Calabim and their Manors.

Top tier for me?

Keelyn, Varn, Flauros, Decius in restricted format

Spi Ilians, Tebryn of Bals, Kandros of non-dwarves, Varn of anything ( esp. elves ), Elohim with a strong leader, Hannah of Hippus in unrestricted.