WW48: Melllvar's Grand Competition!

[sunrise089]

Is there a way to get the mafia helper...script...thing to post a tally? Or do we rely on the almighty Melllvar to do it?

[Gaspar]

I hate doing what I'm about to do, its the worst part of werewolf. Because I'm going to try and explain my thinking to someone who is tunneling on me.  I hate doing this, because it is utterly pointless.  I'm only going to do this because I'm not contributing anything spectacularly useful to the village so at least making a moderate attempt to not have us waste a lynch seems like the least I can do.  But generally speaking, I'm more content to let my content do the talking and eat the lynch if it comes down to it than to engage in these pointless battles.

Anyway, here goes...

Finally, more sunrise<-->Gaspar interaction, which I'm sure everyone is itching for! [I'm double quoting to break this up but both quotes are from the same post]

As far as sunrise, I play by feel. I don't expect everyone to agree with my methods but I don't play worrying about what others think. I voted for Meiz because I just watched Meiz play two games where he's either inquisitive or trying to lead the village from minute one. He didn't do that here. Im not judging him against your baseline, I'm judging him against his.  Period.

The "your baseline versus his baseline" is pretty much BS dude. I'm judging him against my own percieved baseline of his behavior, and you're judging him against your perceived baseline of his behavior. Yay, we're established that the game is subjective  . But please don't suggest you're some sort of objective arbiter of truth here with respect to his past play.

Look - I think generally speaking, I'm pretty good at this game.  We all have skills in life, I'm pretty good at snap-reading people.  I know this works in real life and I know it works here.  If that comes off as arrogant, well, I picked House for a reason.  But yeah, if I have to take the Pepsi challenge on my ability to read Meiz vs your ability to read Meiz, well, I'll take that bet.  If we need someone to slave out a billion two-movers to kill Meiz, I'm gonna pick you for that.  Like I said, we all have skills.

I have no idea if you're scum Gaspar. You're my number one suspect but it's not like I'm "Lewwyn-on-Scooter-in-WW46" confident here. But for all of your 'town Meiz is an awesome villager' and "he's either inquisitive or trying to lead the village from minute one" you seem unwilling to point to a single %&#* post prior to your Meiz vote where a town Meiz would have made a read, pushed someone, started a bandwagon, etc. I contend it's because prior to your and Commodore's votes and novice's discussion of them there wasn't anything at all substantive to discuss. Please prove me wrong here and quote something.

This isn't how I operate.  I read the shit, I get a feel, I post it.  Sometimes it is accompanied by a vote if I want to add pressure to my suspicion or if I'm done with my previous target.  I read Meiz's posts prior to my post, I felt like he wasn't being Meiz enough and I surmised it wasn't good.  Since then, he's been very Meiz.  If that's because it was too early in the game for him to be Meiz, well, that's your opinion, but I just read another game (WW47) where he was Meiz-ing his ass off from the start.  I wanted that Meiz, not the one I read.  Maybe I totally misread that, I don't know - like I said, I'm off this game.  But it was my gut, and I play with my gut.  I get a lot of people don't like that, but it works for me.

But I agree that thrawn feels like he's trying too hard.

Who is saying thrawn is trying too hard? Aren't they all actually saying he's holding back and being much less active than he was as town in WW47? Are you again joining a wagon without bothering to read what the wagon driver's claims are??

He's trying too hard not to be thrawn from WW47.  He caught a fair bit of flack in the lurker thread from lurkers and dead players.  And now I think he's holding back in response to that, or maybe because he's scum and he saw that his active self drew too much attention.  I don't know - if I was sure, I'd be calling you all idiots much more vociferously.  But its as good a theory as I have right now, so I'm voting for him.

That's the best I can do to explain an early vote based on tone reads, as opposed to my later votes, based off tone reads.  If I'm still alive in 4 days, I'll still be voting based off tone reads.  *shrug*

[sunrise089]

Sunrise, I feel like at the time of the votes against me the game was in stage of "let's just put votes on someone since we don't have anything to go by". So while I agree there was not much content worth prodding about, I also agree that I had just RP'd due to that and had not talked anything game related at the time. So IMO the votes agaisnt me were not bad and Gaspar has not kept on hammering against me for not being town enough.

Please read post 72 and tell me Gaspar was voting for you "since we don't have anything to go by." Lewwyn, pindicator, and to a lesser extent Kaiser and Commodore voted for that reason. Gaspar did not. Please actually re-read and tell me that's not the case. I know this isn't the world's biggest tell but Town is hurting itself by assuming because these votes occurred near when nonsense/flavor votes were happening they must have been nonsense votes themselves.

[Meiz]

I only posted RP on the day this game started, so I agree that I did not prod anyone and therefore I can understand his reasoning for the vote. I'd be more suspicious if he had continued to talk about me not being town enough, but as far as I can see he has just talked about his initial reason for voting me.

[sunrise089]

Thanks Gaspar, I appreciate that response. I'm switching to Lewwyn to try and prod some activity - after all town Lewwyn is GOOD for the village, certainly more than town sunrise based on past games. I'm doing that because I believe the following respresents the totality of Lewwyn's scumhunting (versus RP, comments on other RP, or encouragements for others to vote) so far this game:

My case is that WK is using his RP to hide. His vote on me was simply a lurker vote and almost every other post has been RP. Good RP, but RP. I remember a certain other wolf who did the same thing in Zak.

thrawn was a villager last time and this time he's a wolf. Pretty clearly holding back. Even if he was going to play differently as a villager it would have been more than he's doing now.

That notwithstanding Gaspar is still my #1 and my planned vote for tomorrow. I encourage others to read his early posts and see if his vote was solely for tone or was, as I claim, for a lack of engagement based on a then-impossible standard. But I feel our direct exchange has run its course for now and it's more useful for me to turn the tunnel into a...wider tunnel...? (it turns out there isn't really a metaphor for something broader than a tunnel that fulfills the same purpose. Tunnels are pretty much the same width as roads, bridges, etc. Maybe a parking lot?

[pindicator]

I'm asking because even though he talked about tone reads before, I don't think his later play has heavily relied on it. It seems to be on the same level as others. So to me it seems like you are taking this one specific idea from his early post to paint him as scum, while not analyzing his play as a whole. Something in his later posts that has made him suspicious to you?

Anyways, I'm currently voting for Lewwyn, but at this point I'd rather vote thrawn with Pindicator coming close in second. Still, it feels rude to vote Pind before he wakes up and can futher contribute his reads.

There's the Meiz I know! (Though I've never been lynched day 1. I kind of want to make it a bucket list thing now. I haven't been paying attention, that's my reason for my absense. And a whole bunch of personal stuff that you don't really care about. But still: I could be the Bob of this game!)

Anyway, let's twist your noodle a bit and thrawn it up with you. He is totally off character, as so many people have noted. (Though I did believe the "shut up" part was in character- I pretty much read that in John de Lancy's voice. Actually, his Q RP has been pretty solid.)

I still don't feel good about sunrise, as I think Gaspar is as Gaspar as Gaspar can be. But that was what I said about scooter - whatever, I stand by Gaspar seeming town.

[Gazglum]

Sunrise, what is it you find useful in Gold's last few posts?

[sunrise089]

Sunrise, what is it you find useful in Gold's last few posts?

Good question. I'm going to quote Commodore's response first, since I kind of wanted to translate Gold's post back then and I'm a little surprised Commodore had a hard time parsing it.

<I'm going to need you to unpack that sequence of events for me with proper nouns, because you seem about as confused as Jabbz>

Here's Gold's post:

Lazy scum?  I mean, Omar impressed  a dolphin that can talk.  Didn't know that was in the skill set of porpoises.  But have you said a single thing longer than one line all game, dolphin?  Lots of block quotes.  Bunch of vote flips.  Keeping that post count up, real artificial and such.  Pots and kettles, Flip.  Omar got his eye on you too.  

But like Omar said, target be a target cause he a junkie.  Target stay a target cause he suspicious.  Strangest thing I saw all game was Doc changing his vote right after you to jump on Bee-boy after Doc had the most early votes.  Maybe self-preservation, but usually junkies ain't real self-preserving, you feel.  And now you back on him again?  Not sure if you just came to your senses about Doc, or if you keep moving on and off when convenient.  

Omar watching you too, now.  But Doc stay the target.

*Gold voted Gaspar for flavor initially
*Gaspar then followed Commodore onto Meiz, which has been well hashed out at this point. Gold follows the novice line of criticism here about the voting order/pattern. This is his biggest scum lean.
*Gaspar notes Commodore's posts are padded due to the fun translation gimmick and that he's moved on and off Gaspar, so Commodore's a second suspect.
I don't think that's, like, an amazing post. But it's two sane reads and something like half the players in the game haven't offered two sane reads yet.

[sunrise089]

@Gazglum, the follow-up to Commodore is good too:

Apparently just because a dolphin can talk don't mean it can listen.

It's pretty funny but I agree that Gold's post isn't hard to parse and Commodore of all people shouldn't have had trouble navigating it.

[Meiz]

I still don't feel good about sunrise

Because?