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No. Else you become a parent before you know you are one, giving you parental responsibilities before you know you have them.
BTW an egg is not alive. The best definition for when it is alive is when it can survive outside the mother's body.
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(October 6th, 2018, 14:20)AdrienIer Wrote: No. Else you become a parent before you know you are one, giving you parental responsibilities before you know you have them.
Certainly you can become a parent before you know you are one, as many fathers find out even many years later to their surprise.
Quote:BTW an egg is not alive. The best definition for when it is alive is when it can survive outside the mother's body.
An fetus is alive, this is a simple fact.
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The power of that hashtag is broken, the political hit job failed.
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(October 6th, 2018, 16:27)ipecac Wrote: Certainly you can become a parent before you know you are one, as many fathers find out even many years later to their surprise.
Yet no responsability unless you learn that you have a child.
Quote:An fetus is alive, this is a simple fact.
The way you say this without any backing whatsoever implies that you have no idea what you're talking about. You still haven't given a definition of "alive". A 3cm ball of growing nerves isn't alive by most standard though.
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There is absolutely no question in biology whether fetus is living matter -- it is, as is an egg. A separate question is whether a fetus can be considered a biologically separate organism. A yet separate question is whether this question of biology has anything to do with normativity and specifically with morality. In any case, depending on another organism for survivial is NOT a biological criterion for being a separate organism, plenty of organisms can only live within other organisms. I'm sure that AdrienIer couldn't cite his statements to any actual biological work (biologists argue about the life status of _viruses_, never mind a properly formed and metabolizing cell such as an egg)
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So according to you taking a morning-after pill is murder ? I love how you try to make it sound like you're the mainstream and I'm extreme.
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(October 7th, 2018, 11:21)AdrienIer Wrote: So according to you taking a morning-after pill is murder ?
If the intention is to kill with a good chance of killing, laws don't look kindly on such categories of action even if they doesn't reach to provable murder.
(October 7th, 2018, 10:45)Bacchus Wrote: There is absolutely no question in biology whether fetus is living matter: it is)
I try to start from basic facts, but it's hard when the other side comes up with garbage such as 'the best definition for when it is alive is when it can survive outside the mother's body.'
Accusing me of not giving backing for the basic fact while not giving any backing for his assertion is typical.
October 7th, 2018, 12:38
(This post was last modified: October 7th, 2018, 12:38 by ipecac.)
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As for extremism, your side ends up declaring an arbitrary point before you can permissibly kill your children.
All because you want hedonism without responsibility.
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(October 7th, 2018, 10:45)Bacchus Wrote: A separate question is whether a fetus can be considered a biologically separate organism. A yet separate question is whether this question of biology has anything to do with normativity and specifically with morality. In any case, depending on another organism for survivial is NOT a biological criterion for being a separate organism, plenty of organisms can only live within other organisms. I'm sure that AdrienIer couldn't cite his statements to any actual biological work (biologists argue about the life status of _viruses_, never mind a properly formed and metabolizing cell such as an egg)
For those who want to skip past most of the tedium,
October 7th, 2018, 15:24
(This post was last modified: October 7th, 2018, 16:02 by Bacchus.)
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Quote:So according to you taking a morning-after pill is murder ? I love how you try to make it sound like you're the mainstream and I'm extreme.
No, it's not murder, because murder is a legal/moral concept and does not rest on any particular biological foundation. We end life (of bacteria) with our every breath. There is nothing particularly bad about ending life (in a biological sense), in fact many forms of life biologically depend on ending life, biology has no respect for life whatsoever, and whatever we have cannot arise from biological theorizing. At least not in any obvious way.
And I'm not saying you are extreme, I'm saying you are using terms without any apparent knowledge of their meaning, or disciplinary context.
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