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[SPOILERS] Margarita and the Lurkers

(August 27th, 2013, 16:10)Maga_R Wrote: My experimentation in-game shows that 20% discount is applied to the tech cost, I assume the same is done with 3% per civs knowing the tech discount, otherwise it would be unobservable until much later in game lol.

Nope. smile It will be used as a multiplier to raw beakers generated by you. If I remember correctly the formula that can be found at the CFC site is not correct and beaker generation works really like this:

Actual beakers = Raw beakers * (1 + pre-req bonus + known-tech bonus)

The result gets rounded down.
"Raw beakers" include the free beaker discussed earlier.
Absolute tech costs are only related to map size and difficulty.
Finished:
PBEM 45G, PB 13, PB 18, PB 38 & PB 49

Top 3 favorite turns: 
#1, #2, #3
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Fintourist is correct. Civ5 has the bonuses affect the tech costs, sometimes to weird results.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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Maga,

Looked in game this morning and those movements you left on Skype are fine, NE - SE I believe. I'll be able to make the turn tonight near the end of the timer but if you want to get to it first go ahead. I also took a shot of our current progress into AH (78 beakers) that I have yet to put into drop but it looks like 6 turns at 13 per = 78. 10 base times +20% multiplier = 12 + the free beaker = 13
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You guys are likely right, I forgot again about that damned free beaker - so I could not get my pre-multiplier beakers below 10, so both formulas gave same results and my experimentations we invalid frown. And I vaguely remembered reading somewhere on CFC discounts are applied to the tech cost.

BTW, assuming this is the correct formula

Actual beakers = Raw beakers * (1 + pre-req bonus + known-tech bonus)

and everything is rounded down as usual, the known-tech bonus begins to matter only after the raw beaker beaker count reaches 31. Too bad frown. I hoped to use it much earlier ...
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(August 28th, 2013, 12:05)slaze Wrote: Maga,

Looked in game this morning and those movements you left on Skype are fine, NE - SE I believe. I'll be able to make the turn tonight near the end of the timer but if you want to get to it first go ahead. I also took a shot of our current progress into AH (78 beakers) that I have yet to put into drop but it looks like 6 turns at 13 per = 78. 10 base times +20% multiplier = 12 + the free beaker = 13

Hi Slaze,

Thanks for your reply, since you agree on the moves I will go ahead and do them not to hold the game, our goal is to play these initial turns in 12 hours.
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Wow, exciting turn. Uncovered banana on my first move - and borders of Pacal of Native America on another frown. Capitol of Dog Soldiers' Kingdom is only 16 tiles away from us cry. Re-reading info on Dog Soldiers - me does not like it frown. Perhaps Jovan was right afterall that we should pick Native America ourselves wink. Anyway, I am grateful it is not an Aggressive Rome biggrin. If we have horses nearby, we should be OK or will just have to tech archery.

Interesting thing is we know from demos that every capitol has some water tiles in it, but I do not see any water from the side I am approaching. So it looks like we are paired with Native America in the sense that natural obstacles direct us to expand toward each other ... We will see how this plays out.
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What I referred to as my "in-game" experimentation, was that when at turn 2 I switched from generating 10 visible beaker to 9 visible beakers and consequently turns to finish Animal Husbandry changed from 11 to 12. Now I see that the only thing it shows is that "free" beaker must be added before multipliers. BTW, I think that discounting tech costs would be more logical and elegant solution - I also thought that visual display suggest this, but have to check.
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Okay first my duty as a lurker: more pictures rant

(August 28th, 2013, 12:30)Maga_R Wrote: Interesting thing is we know from demos that every capitol has some water tiles in it, but I do not see any water from the side I am approaching. So it looks like we are paired with Native America in the sense that natural obstacles direct us to expand toward each other ... We will see how this plays out.

I don't fully understand this without a picture, but maybe his start is like yours. A few water tiles at one side but more land pass that.


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(August 28th, 2013, 14:36)retep Wrote: Okay first my duty as a lurker: more pictures rant

We are at Slaze's mercy here as I cannot take land shots and Slaze has been recently very busy in RL, so this may take a while.

(August 28th, 2013, 14:36)retep Wrote:
(August 28th, 2013, 12:30)Maga_R Wrote: Interesting thing is we know from demos that every capitol has some water tiles in it, but I do not see any water from the side I am approaching. So it looks like we are paired with Native America in the sense that natural obstacles direct us to expand toward each other ... We will see how this plays out.

I don't fully understand this without a picture, but maybe his start is like yours. A few water tiles at one side but more land pass that.

I meant that their start is more likely to be a mirror version of ours. And we have many indications already that starts are somewhat similar, but far from identical.

I was approaching them from the left, so I was expecting to see something like our capitol:

   

But instead I saw only hills and forest in their BFC. So basically left side of their BFC is rather similar to right side of ours (both capitols had already border pop).
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(August 28th, 2013, 13:44)Maga_R Wrote: What I referred to as my "in-game" experimentation, was that when at turn 2 I switched from generating 10 visible beaker to 9 visible beakers and consequently turns to finish Animal Husbandry changed from 11 to 12. Now I see that the only thing it shows is that "free" beaker must be added before multipliers. BTW, I think that discounting tech costs would be more logical and elegant solution - I also thought that visual display suggest this, but have to check.

This leads to a problem. If finishing a tech gives discount to other players, than the game becomes about sandbagging techs until needed (leaving them 1 turn from finished), to get maximum discount and avoid giving it to other players. See my thread in Civ V PBEM 2 for more discussion on the topic.
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