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Poll: Map K1 (ss shown) or K5 (Krill's new one)
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K1
0%
 0 0%
K5
81.25%
 13 81.25%
Either
18.75%
 3 18.75%
Total 16 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

 
Pitboss 8

#221
October 27th, 2012, 16:02
Krill Offline
Occasional Nostradamus
Posts: 23,587
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Joined: Jun 2009
That's the other reason I tried not to say crap like that.
Current games (All): RtR: PB80 Civ 6: PBEM23

Ended games (Selection): BTS games: PB1, PB3, PBEM2, PBEM4, PBEM5B, PBEM50. RB mod games: PB5, PB15, PB27, PB37, PB42, PB46, PB71. FFH games: PBEMVII, PBEMXII. Civ 6:  PBEM22 Games ded lurked: PB18
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#222
October 27th, 2012, 16:03
spacetyrantxenu Offline
Turnip Scum
Posts: 7,658
Threads: 31
Joined: Jun 2011
Let's go with the K5 map. There is no point playing out a game where someone has no chance from the start. This doesn't have to be balanced but it does have to be playable for everyone.

Played: Pitboss 18 - Kublai Khan of Germany Somalia | Pitboss 11 - De Gaulle of Byzantium | Pitboss 8 - Churchill of Portugal | PB7 - Mao of Native America | PBEM29 Greens - Mao of Babylon
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#223
October 27th, 2012, 16:05
BRickAstley Offline
Administrator
Posts: 7,916
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Joined: Jan 2012
+1 for K5. We've already talked too much about starts and desires for the old map. Though I'll be sad to lose my 3 wet corn 2 PH Gold start... wink
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#224
October 27th, 2012, 16:05
Serdoa Offline
48h of fun
Posts: 6,630
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Joined: Apr 2010
Well, I was actually happy to get a start which did at least give me some breather after seeing my horrendous pairing. Guess it isn't to be. I trust Seven and Krill to make the right call here though (at least overall for all players).

But when we are at it, can I please get another leader? I don't like playing IND... again. I think I was IND in half the games I played on RB. wink
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#225
October 27th, 2012, 16:06
Catwalk Offline
Regular User
Posts: 6,457
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Joined: Aug 2004
I'm fine with using K5.
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#226
October 27th, 2012, 16:12
Commodore Offline
Minted in the 1900's
Posts: 18,036
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Joined: May 2011
Much fun as we've had polishing the turd that is our current start...K5 is fine too.
If only you and me and dead people know hex, then only deaf people know hex.

I write RPG adventures, and blog about it, check it out.
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#227
October 27th, 2012, 16:16 (This post was last modified: October 27th, 2012, 16:21 by Merovech.)
Merovech Offline
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Posts: 3,588
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Joined: Jun 2012
If there is that bad a start out there for someone, then yes, let's use Krill's map. I also support Serdoa's suggestion somewhat, but not strongly.

Note: everything I have posted so far is my personal opinion, not necessarily the team's opinion. ad hoc is the primary turnplayer, after all. I will support his decision either way on this.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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#228
October 27th, 2012, 16:19
Catwalk Offline
Regular User
Posts: 6,457
Threads: 134
Joined: Aug 2004
I'd say we should play it safe and stick with leaders smile There's no way around sticking with assigned leaders, has nothing to do with the map being bad. I don't think Serdoa was serious, though.
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#229
October 27th, 2012, 16:21
Mardoc Offline
Regular User
Posts: 12,510
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(October 27th, 2012, 15:52)Krill Wrote: FWIW, I generated the map that Mardoc then altered. I've spent 4 hours regenerating maps to find ones that fit the description of what you wanted, and I think are playable (because trust me, there are a lot of maps generated with 11 players that leave someone up in the tundra). Both maps are completely random to begin with before the edits you wanted, but as Seven said, the other map just looks a lot more fun to play on.

I wouldn't be at all surprised that this map might be more balanced, and still all the result of the generator. I think the fundamental question is what you guys are looking for - thought you wanted some imbalance.

Still, I'd tend to trust Krill and Seven more than my own judgment.
EitB 25 - Perpentach
Occasional mapmaker
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#230
October 27th, 2012, 16:46
Mardoc Offline
Regular User
Posts: 12,510
Threads: 61
Joined: Oct 2010
(October 27th, 2012, 15:52)Krill Wrote: I've spent 4 hours regenerating maps to find ones that fit the description of what you wanted, and I think are playable

This is the fundamental difference between the one I did, and the one Krill's proposing.

I took the first one that looked sorta ok, then threw in about 45 minutes worth of making those edits, and called it done. Krill kept going until he found one he thought was pretty balanced, and is apparently willing to finish balancing the starts.

So...what are you guys looking for? After looking at Krill's proposal I don't think there's any doubt that the one he spent a lot of time on is more fair than the one I threw together. And it's still definitely natural looking and asymmetrical and so on. That's pretty much what you'd expect from the extra time. Is fair what you want?
EitB 25 - Perpentach
Occasional mapmaker
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