[Spoilers] Gavagai, Bacchus and Elizabeth Form a Romantic Trio

[Bacchus]

God, why do we even need Agri so early? It just slows down AH. And how is lacking a granary instead of having it "fine"?

Granary has no value of itself, its value is in the number of turns it will save in growth. This, given the amount of surplus in the capital, is low (2-3 turns, I count). It's value is about 4-6 hammers or 6-9 coins. We get Pottery just a turn after the third (corn) city is founded, so there is no slowdown for it, and this is the city for which the granary really matters.

We need Agri so early so we can get researching AH with a bonus. Three turns saved, this is more than the faster growth to 5 on a granary in the capital will give you (provided you use the faster appearing pops to work the lake and get commerce).

Ok, and what we will do after improving the cow? We will then have a choice between working a cow or a copper and will need to forgo copper. A copper mine will remain unworked for some time anyway.

Edit: I suspect that going Agri-Hunting-AH you have a cow improved only by the moment when our third city is founded...

Sure, there will be a mine, which is not worked, but this is an aesthetic problem only. On actual yield consider this — we can get the mine online before the cow whatever we do, because we have Mining already, the mine is actually more productive than the cow, because it's riverside. If we choose not to work the mine, we will have to work an unimproved cow, whilst we could have improved a mine and be working that. If we improve the mine first, whilst building a worker, we then get the cow online very snappish, as we get two workers on it immediately as soon as AH is researched, which is only 2 turns later than if we research it without Agri, as Agri saves us 3 turns into AH. In fact, I think the micro can be managed so that AH is only 2 turns later. Which is, anyway, pretty much as soon as workers are available.

Generally, jus' sim it, you'll see how nicely everything comes together.

[Gavagai]

On actual yield - when are you going to hit pop 2 in your second city? When you hit pop 2, you will work both the copper and the cow. Also - we need to be pop 2 ASAP to be able to whip an emergency spear. Last but not least - I'm actually considering delaying this mine and chopping a forest into another warrior instead. We really need two warriors to defend ourselves from their harassment.

Also: what's your timetable for the third and the fourth cities? I think that the third one should go to the corner near the capital, to share clams. And the fourth one will go north, escorted by axe/spear. In all my sims I was able to have a settler in the northern area between T65 and T70. Will it be possible in your plan?

(If you are so averse to building a granary in a capital - what would you say about skipping pottery and going for sailing? Lighthouse will clearly be more powerful.)

[Gavagai]

New turn has started. We lost our scout to a lion. I started building a warrior in a capital and moved our worker to a forest. Ended turn.

[Bacchus]

On further settlement, I usually went for the western corn first, then for the eastern corn, then for the clam-sharer, and then for the north. I now consider this wrong, and am settling the north before the clam.

My second warrior comes out of the copper city on T50, at the same time a warrior is built in the capital.

The eastern corn city is founded on T65 with metal escort, the settler for the northern city sets out with a metal escort on T70 from the copper city, the clam sharer is settled around T80, which is when we have more or less finished using the capital clams for whipping.

I like Pottery for the cottages, but there might be something in the lighthouse. Need to look at micro.

[Bacchus]

Here is the micro for my original worker-first, Agri before AH plan:

Tile key: 1 - unimproved copper, 2 - improved copper, 3 - unimproved cow, 4 - imroved cow, 5 - flat grass forest


I will now sim the growth-first, AH before Agri, optimize and post the table.

Edit: here and further, "Monument" can be any other thing, it's basically a placeholder to demonstrate hammer yields.

[Bacchus]

Growth first, mine first:


Growth first, chop first:

[Bacchus]

Option 1 wins us 5-6 workerturns, 7 commerce of working the riverside tile and saves 5-6 turns of research. There is also a nice coincidence in techs there, where we can take almost 90% of a turn's research as overflow from AH into The Wheel, which rocks, as we would get a double pre-req bonus on these beakers, whilst putting them into a no-prereq tech. This is the most economical option.

Option 2 just sucks.

Option 3 gets us a much earlier Warrior (11 turns), and basically earlier everything else, we end up something like 13 hammers up, which is great. We pay with 6 worker turns and research delay. This is the most military option.

[Bacchus]

I started chopping and ended turn.

[Gavagai]

Something should be wrong with your simming. It's plainly impossible that we grow five turns later and yet get better total yields.

[Gavagai]

Also - what was the point in going for copper first if we still can't build spears until T52?