[Spoilers] Cometh the Messiah - Varn Gosam and the Malakim

[Thoth]

So it looks like BTS rounds the 0.5 health/forest down and FFHII rounds 0.5 up

Heh. The above is wrong.

Both BTS and FFH2 round down. The extra mystery health comes from forests in the city's 3rd ring. 3rd ring forests are worth 0.25 health each (rounded down)

In your turn 69 screenshot I can see 5 forests in your fat cross (+2.5 health) and 5 in your 3rd ring (+1.25) = 3.75 health, rounded down to 3.



My worker/improvement micro plans just got a whole lot more complicated.

[NobleHelium]

That's very interesting. Can you test City of a Thousand Slums / Sprawling as well? Does that make the third ring forests 0.5 health, or do they remain the same? And does it have an effect on fourth ring forests?

[Thoth]

That's very interesting. Can you test City of a Thousand Slums / Sprawling as well? Does that make the third ring forests 0.5 health, or do they remain the same? And does it have an effect on fourth ring forests?

It was also wrong again. Looking at some of my old saves, the numbers weren't adding up. I did some more testing, and came up with the following observations:

1) With an even number of forests in the fat cross the health bonus is (number of forests)/2. Adding extra forests in the 3rd ring produced no change.

2) With an odd number of forests, the health bonus is (number of forests)/2 rounded down.

3) With 1 or two forests in the third ring no extra health was added.

4) With 3 or more forests in the third ring, the mystery extra health appeared

5) Adding more forests in the third ring beyond 3 had no effect.

6) This effect isn't always seen. I was unable to reproduce the above results consistently from city to city. Most cities display the normal forest health bonus irrespective of the 3rd ring.

7) I haven't got a clue what is causing this behavior to happen/not happen.

I'm going to generate some random starts and see if I can determine what causes this behavior to trigger. (so much for getting anything productive done today.... )

Edit: Ran some tests. The effect appears to be tied to the location of the city on the map. I was able to identify a 3x3 area where the effect occurred. There may be more than one spot on the map affected, but I haven't been able to find them if they do exist. It was pure luck that the sandbox I set up after taking back over from Sciz happened to put my settler in the "odd health box".


WRT Sprawling/CoaTS: All forests within the expanded BFC contribute 0.5 health (rounded down). You also get the extra unhealth from any floodplains/jungle in the third ring.

[Ilios]

Well that's good to know, because I was about to chop some forest in the capital's third ring.

I agree, really weird...

I've decided to head for Construction after Hunting. I'll need some time to build a couple of Kilmorph Priest to accompany the Ritualists anyway (provided I'm still heading for Corruption of Spirit).

There's lots of rivers in my lands, and I want to benefit from the mobility those Priests can offer me (which means I need the Bridge Building effect from Construction).

I also want to start building some Forts for the passive effects (extra visibility, combat bonus).

And lastly, my newest city, Lugh, will be very food poor until I can spread some irrigation to non-river grassland.

Roughly, the plan is now to build those Priests, take that barb city for Combat experience (with the actual city as an added bonus). I'd like to found a city towards the Lanun before they run out of coastal spots. Ideally, I want to hold off capturing/founding more cities until Ashen Veil is founded (would be nice for En-Kai and its Academy to have the beaker holy city).

Current tech plan:

Priesthood (2t) - Hunting (2-3t) - Masonry (1t) - Construction (2t)

I'd really like to squeeze in Writing if I can afford it.

City builds:

Helios: Priests
Ra: Settler
En-Kai: Thanes/Priests
Horus: Hunting Lodge - Hunters/Hawks
Lugh: Market - Kilmorph Temple

[Ilios]

Caught Amelia in a chat:

Amelia: ah ok
erm
06:36 can i request that you don't settle any more cities south? i don't mind if you do but if you do that i don't have any city as a middle between my capital and your borders
ik: hmm, i'll have to think about that
06:37 I've got a lot of culture to fill
Amelia: o erm
how far have you explored?
to my borders?
ik: third ring
of your capital
Amelia: urgh
i want a city to the north of my capital actually
because i have 0 space left
to my south is all ice
and... being the lanun they decided to block off my west/east with water
06:38 ik: west?
you grabbed those pigs yet?
06:39 Amelia: nope
it's blocked
i have to move like 10-12 tiles just to get it
ik: ?
Amelia: you mean the pigs
near the water right
ik: yes
Amelia: near the rice as well
06:40 ik: dunno about the rice
Amelia: wait
west or east
left or right lol
ik: west
left

Amelia: yea
i'll take a long time to reach it
because i have to go around the water
ik: ?
wait, let me fire up a save
Amelia: 9 tiles to reach the pig
06:41 which was 2 hills / a forest
9 tiles to reach the pig
which was 2 hills / a forest
has, sorry
06:43 ik: my two cities have their cultures deep into the south
could we share?
Amelia: is map trading allowed?
do you have carto, basically
ik: I have carto
...

This is where she sent me a pic:

Amelia: is this the pigs
you're talking about?
06:50 ik: yup
Amelia: yeah ><
you can see what i mean
when i say it's far away
really far away
ik: alright, sec

This is where I took a screenhot of the land between us. I cheated ofcourse, and placed my City sign a tile south of my original dot. That way, I could always "compromise" to the site 1N.

this is what I was planning
06:53 but I think I can move it one N
giving you room for a city, s of mana?
06:54 Amelia: moment
refiring the save
06:56 hmmm
1s of mana is a horrible site though
hmm
who's on the west of you?
i might try and run for the pigs site instead
muchbetter then 1s of the mana
ik: luchuirp
Amelia: lol
06:57 luchuiep as in
ik: and I want dibs on pigs
Amelia: the one who lost barnaxus?
ik: porc chops
yep
Amelia: you want the site
ik: i mean the resource
Amelia: or do you want the resource?
ik: not the site
Amelia: ah
yeah that shouldn't be a prob
ik: so tell
me
06:58 how is diplo
Amelia: as good as it can get for an isolated civ
ik: you met calabim right?
Amelia: because honestly, i am freaking isolated
yes i did meet them though
ik: do you border them
?
06:59 Amelia: erm
i can see their border
through water
there's only one entrance in, and i have a city on that entrance already
ik: alright
finally they fired their worldspell
07:00 Amelia: lol
didn't hurt me much
not with Lanun's crazy ports
ik: nicely targetted at the only player running aristocracy at the time
07:01 Amelia: wait
are you in aris
or agristocracy
ik: agri
and ari
Amelia: ah
damn that's fast
07:02 ik: but I meant serdoa
right, i forgot
you haven't met him hyet
Amelia: ah lol
balseraphs?
ik: yes
Amelia: yeah haven't met him yet
ik: he now has 7 very small cities
07:03 still FIN/PHI/EXP
Amelia: WAIT
FIN/PHI/EXP?
ik: yeah
like 50 turns already
Amelia: o gosh
07:04 i wish i had space for 7 cities =(
ik: cheap councils, markets, settlers, granaries
Amelia: i don't even have space for 6 now
ik: there is another coastal site to my east
Amelia: lol
if you didn't give me the pigs city
i would have 4 cities
that's about it
07:05 one's not even an average city
just gets two cotton and a lake
(the rest are ice/peaks)
ik: you planning on getting another pearl resource?
Amelia: can't find any
ik: pity
Amelia: not surprising because i don't have scouting at all though
oh yeah
another matter
07:06 can you lend me a sun mana someday?
i need to scorch a lot
ik: ice -> tundra?
Amelia: better then normal ice, heh
ik: yeah, no problem
Amelia: at least tundra is slightly workable
07:07 can build a farm or a cottage
with the right techs
ik: tundra is as good as plains with agri
Amelia: oh
and emr
how's your mana supply?
ik: sucks
Amelia: i only have one mana resource right now, and that's the one you're seeing as well
07:08 ik: same here
Amelia: you mean
we're sharing the same resource?
ik: and I'm grabbing it with fourth ring culture of my second city
no
that's yours
Amelia: oh ok
thanks
anyway
this is my south

I hope she is as generous with the screenshots with Lurkerdom as she is with me.

Notice how she conveniently didn't remove the
I wonder if she headed straight for Mind Stapling because I mentioned I'd like to convert to Octopus Overlords in an earlier chat. Not a great move to me, because the buildings and units that are unlocked with Mind Stapling are pretty hammer intensive for this stage of the game, certainly for Amelia. Saverous will give her a shot at Form of the Titan eventually, so I need to level a Priest as soon as possible.

practically unworkable, as for now
07:09 with scorch i can get maybe one city in there
ik: that's nice
if you like cold and stuf
Amelia: sadly i am no illians
07:10 ik: the map is really small for 7 players
Amelia: which reminds me
i'm going to get Saverous out soon
don't be alarmed about that
i just need a lot of defense
07:11 ik: i'm not worried
Amelia: everyone knows Lanun is a pushover normally
ik: i'm getting Priesthood soon
Amelia: so i think i'm one of the first on the chopping block
ik: well
Amelia: and now that Sciz is half dead
ik: you're safe from me
I have to return a favor
07:12 to someone
Amelia: heh
Loki?
ik: yup
so better watch out when planting new cities
07:13 Amelia: i'm throwing overlord in it immediately
to start culture
ik: good
Amelia: one slight benefit of the octopuses
ik: yeah, I could use the culture output
07:14 I'll just have to culture-bomb new cities
Amelia: heh...
i can hardly get any GPs
ik: mini-culture bomb that is
Amelia: ah
ok
lol
07:15 i have hardly any hammer production as well
all i have is food and commerce

And like that, Amelia has conceded the land between us...

Recap:

- Lanun are pretty isolated, with not a lot of room to expand (pretty much what I've heard from everyone).
- I get a city between us. I "concede" the Pigs to her west.
- I will loan her Sun Mana for her to scorch her Ice wastelands.
- She is getting Saverous for protection.
- A future trade deal for Pigs is set up.

[Ilios]

At the rate both games have been progressing, I expect PBEM 3 to catch up with our game, turnwise, by the end of the month...

I am currently weighing a quick sidestep into Way of the Forest, because the Priests of Leaves are overal better than Kilmorph Priests. A plan is being formed to quickly build 4-5 missionaries and then upgrade to Priests en-masse.

Reason: Right now, apart from the capital, most cities have some food, little hammers and lots of commerce. So it would make economic sense to use that commerce to quickly gain Priests.

I'd only convert for the minimum 5 turns, because I haven't finished Lumbermilling the forests I want to keep.

After that I can still head for Corruption of Spirit, giving me a nice mix of Kilmorph (Shield of Faith), Leaves (Tiger Summon) and Ashen Veil (Ring of Flames) Priests.

[Ichabod]

I think the minimum time between switches in FfH is 10 turns. Not sure about religion, but pretty sure about civics (FfH PBEM IV was quick speed and it was still 10 turns).

[Thoth]

I think the minimum time between switches in FfH is 10 turns. Not sure about religion, but pretty sure about civics (FfH PBEM IV was quick speed and it was still 10 turns).

Minimum for civics is 10 turns. Minimum for Religions is 5 turns. Independent of game speed. (Spiritual gets a nasty nerf on Quick speed vs Normal speed)

[Ilios]

Thoth is correct, 5 turn interval for changing religions.

I think I'll build only 1-2 Kilmorph Priests from the capital. En-Kai will build Lightbringers. I haven't decided yet whether I'll grab Way of the Forest before or after Construction. I'm leaning towards after, because I'll need time to build those Lightbringers in any case.

Next time the turn reaches me, I should also check if it is worthwile grabbing Drama for the free Artist, to launch my first GA. If I can recover the beaker cost (I think around 600) during the GA, I might go for it.

I wonder when Serdoa will fire his Worldspell. Ideally, he gets the double length golden age right about the time I start burning his cities...

[Ilios]

T90:

Not much to report, except for this:



Now there's no way Mist has already researched all the way to Honor, so I'm guessing he got an Ecclesiast from a Dungeon, and founded the religion in one of his cities.

I got Sciz' spare Cotton, and he has claimed the Yggdrasil spot. I'm not too unhappy about it, Sciz is never going to get back in the game.
I'm still mad at myself for grabbing the site, I got greedy, and lost a Settler!

Loki has moved in a position where he can move inside of my borders next turn...

T91:

Priesthood splashscreen:



Malakim citizens all over the Empire rejoice at this momentous occasion...

So what did Serdoa do with Loki?



As expected, he moves him inside my borders.

One war declaration later:



And Loki somehow gets magically teleported on the far side of the peninsula, instead of two tiles away outside of the borders.

No matter, I move my units into position, and end the turn. Four units should be sufficient to box in Loki, which will allow me to kill him once and for all.



I send this to Serdoa:

Serdoa,


I have declared war, which I suppose you were expecting when you moved Loki inside my borders. Because he was occupying the same tile as one my units, Loki has been teleported to a peninsula in the north. There is no way out.

So, in a couple of turns I'll be able to kill your unique Hero.

I still believe we can resolve this peacefully though, but that is up to you.


Regards,

If Serdoa agrees to replace the lost Settler, and throws in something extra, I'm willing to let Loki move back into Balseraph lands.

I'm still going to attack him, but I'd prefer doing it while he's fighting the Calabim.

I've turned off research this turn, netting me a cool 144 gold (no modifiers though, unfortunately).

I will upgrade two Thanes with the cash. I don't think Serdoa has a counter for fast moving, highly promoted Priests.



Those upgrades are pretty pricy at 85 gold a pop, but I think I can afford it with the tech lead I have at the moment.

Most cities will be building Lightbringers, while I wait for Way of the Forest to come in, and upgrade them to Priests of Leaves. Those disposable Tigers will really come in handy when I hit the barb city to my southwest. After that I will probably make the run towards Corruption of Spirit.

Demo:



Without modifiers, not as impressive as before...