RBPB3 - Gandhi of the Egyptians

[novice]

I sent a composite map amde from my photos and sent that to Mutski, as well as the original photos.

But did you trade them the indian maps?

[Krill]

No, I didn't trade away the Indian maps. Not going to do that unless I don't have much choice in the matter.

[Krill]

And here was what I said to Ilios to get him to agree to having Dantski on board. Personally, I wouldn't want Dantski on board if it weren't for the fact that he is in a good posiion to screw with me and India, or that he can be used against France.

(8:47:34 PM) Krill: Heads up
(8:47:40 PM) Krill: but Dantski borders France
(8:47:47 PM) Ilios: ooh
(8:47:52 PM) Krill: we want him in and everyone that borders france
(8:47:53 PM) Ilios: i thought sp
(8:47:58 PM) Krill: and then fuck them up
(8:48:11 PM) Ilios: ok you have our vote
(9:15:56 PM) Krill: on an aside fo you...
(9:16:14 PM) Krill: if rome is the the west of Dantski, he is probably your neighbour
(9:16:28 PM) Ilios: exciting isn't it?
(9:16:33 PM) Krill: Yeah
(9:16:47 PM) Ilios: good thing we'll have archers to protect our cities
(9:17:05 PM) Krill:
(9:17:19 PM) Ilios: we have marble btw
(9:17:23 PM) Ilios:
(9:17:50 PM) Krill: god damn
(9:17:54 PM) Krill: I could do with that
(9:17:55 PM) Ilios: or we will in the future
(9:18:11 PM) Krill: I could easily get Alpha down to t 60 with that
(9:19:01 PM) Ilios: I wonder if those big rivers lead all the way to you
(9:19:16 PM) Ilios: man we need more scouting info
(9:19:17 PM) Krill: Rivers on TBG span the entire globe
(9:19:30 PM) Krill: with toroidal it wouldn;t surprise me if all the rivers were one bbig river
(9:19:59 PM) Ilios: instant connection with sailing
(9:20:21 PM) Ilios: i'll send our minimap tomorrow
(9:21:28 PM) Krill: can you do the one from F5?
(9:21:37 PM) Krill: obviously crop the screen
(9:21:41 PM) Krill: so it is just the map
(9:21:46 PM) Ilios: yeah

[Krill]

And side chat with regoarrarr afterwards:

(9:16:10 PM) regoarrarr: so did you want to talk to us alone afterwards ?
(9:16:57 PM) Krill: I want to buy your great prophet
(9:17:14 PM) regoarrarr: won't you get one sooner from the oracle?
(9:17:25 PM) Krill: not quite
(9:17:30 PM) Krill: either way
(9:17:37 PM) Krill: I still want to buy your prophet.
(9:18:01 PM) regoarrarr: for?
(9:18:25 PM) Krill: Roleplay purposes?
(9:18:31 PM) regoarrarr: i meant for what
(9:18:34 PM) regoarrarr: what are you offering
(9:18:36 PM) Krill: Shrine
(9:18:40 PM) regoarrarr: right
(9:18:43 PM) regoarrarr: got that part
(9:18:56 PM) regoarrarr: but what are you giving us in exchange
(9:19:03 PM) Krill: What would you like?
(9:19:07 PM) regoarrarr: no idea
(9:19:18 PM) regoarrarr: i can post it in teh forums and have soooo or darrell comment
(9:19:24 PM) regoarrarr: i didn't know if you had ideas
(9:19:39 PM) Krill: Great Scientist?
(9:19:49 PM) Krill: Probably the most straight forward
(9:20:11 PM) regoarrarr: okay
(9:20:27 PM) regoarrarr: do you think you'll pop a GSci first?
(9:21:00 PM) Krill: Probably not
(9:21:16 PM) Krill: But being PHI tends to help in the matters for second GP
(9:21:37 PM) regoarrarr: right
(9:21:52 PM) regoarrarr: well i'll post something and see what folks say
(9:22:03 PM) regoarrarr: obviously the timing of when you'll get the sci will make a difference
(9:22:14 PM) regoarrarr: we got henge on t29
(9:22:19 PM) regoarrarr: so i assume gprophet on T79
(9:22:22 PM) Krill: Well, I'm sure we can negoitiate something
(9:22:52 PM) regoarrarr: ok

[Krill]

Screenies from this turn:

Scouting, Hopefully I get a promotion from this battle:




DM, see how they rise up...

[Krill]

Chat with Portugal:

(10:24:54 PM) Willem Oranje: hi, you around?
(10:24:59 PM) Krill: Yeah
(10:25:11 PM) Willem Oranje: Ok, just got your email
(10:25:18 PM) Krill: Whom am I speaking to, btw, Mukha or Dantski?
(10:25:28 PM) Willem Oranje: mukha sorry
(10:25:33 PM) Willem Oranje: dantski is around
(10:25:36 PM) Krill: np
(10:25:43 PM) Krill: Well, to business?
(10:25:49 PM) Willem Oranje: ok
(10:25:59 PM) Willem Oranje: your plains gold caused a flurry of updates
(10:26:03 PM) Willem Oranje: in our thread
(10:26:14 PM) Krill: I'd happily trade it for food
(10:26:19 PM) Willem Oranje: so I think you'll be in the tech lead for a while I imagine
(10:26:32 PM) Krill: but Sullla has never liked biving me a balanced start
(10:27:08 PM) Krill: Go ahead
(10:27:16 PM) Willem Oranje: heh not much to say there
(10:27:26 PM) Willem Oranje: I prefer food too, and a plains gold is clearly an edit
(10:27:52 PM) Willem Oranje: it is strange, not sure if civ placements were known before map was finalized
(10:28:17 PM) Krill: Yeah, they could have been randomized.
(10:28:34 PM) Willem Oranje: remember, though in terms of screwed starts it's hard to beat an all land map as Portugal
(10:28:43 PM) Krill: Well, tech was what I wanted to talk about with you.
(10:28:50 PM) Willem Oranje: yep sure
(10:29:00 PM) Willem Oranje: we were going for wheel pottery at the moment
(10:29:13 PM) Krill: Well, I'm trying to set up a tech alliance atm
(10:29:22 PM) Krill: And I'm planning on Oracling Alphabet
(10:30:02 PM) Willem Oranje: ok, tech alliance with who else?
(10:30:03 PM) Krill: so far I've managed to persuade 2 other teams to take part, but it needs to be larger to have a chance of surviving, so would you like to take part?
(10:30:15 PM) Krill: HRE and India
(10:30:24 PM) Krill: are the only confirmed members as yet
(10:31:09 PM) Willem Oranje: right I'm just relaying to this dantski in real time
(10:31:20 PM) Krill: is he in chat now?
(10:31:43 PM) Willem Oranje: i can't invite him here apparently google chat is only 2 way?
(10:31:57 PM) Krill: one moment, I can set up a group chat
(10:32:20 PM) Krill: I need his email addy though
(10:32:31 PM) Willem Oranje:
(10:33:05 PM) Krill: tell him to check the invites in his inbox
(10:33:41 PM) Willem Oranje: ok, he's accepted

Then a group chat:

(10:32:05 PM) Krill entered the room.
(10:32:06 PM) Mukha entered the room.
(10:32:06 PM)
(10:33:42 PM) dpantski_googlemail.com entered the room.
(10:33:42 PM)
(10:33:51 PM) Mukha: ok
(10:33:54 PM) Dantski hi new mail storage
(10:33:58 PM) Krill: Hello
(10:34:12 PM) Krill: Well, where were we...
(10:34:20 PM) Krill: Ah yes
(10:34:22 PM) Mukha: tech alliance with india, HRE
(10:34:34 PM) Krill: Well, hopefully it'll expand beyond that
(10:34:47 PM) Dantski hmm
(10:34:52 PM) Mukha: it definitely interests me, I guess our main concern is finding that agg rome could very well be our western neighbour
(10:34:56 PM) Dantski hre is on friends list but india isn';t
(10:35:24 PM) Mukha: heh HRE voted yes to our reload request?
(10:35:31 PM) Krill: Well, after discussing the Alliance with India and HRE, they were all happy for you to join
(10:35:34 PM) Dantski they weren't negative i think
(10:36:22 PM) Mukha: ok, I think a tentative yes would be our answer at the moment, we would probably need to discuss it at the moment. I don't suppose you have permission to share the various tech paths of the others do you?
(10:36:37 PM) Krill: So far none of the tech paths have been discussed
(10:36:47 PM) Dantski safe to say we're looking at writing one
(10:36:47 PM) Mukha: we would need construction to fend off praes
(10:37:01 PM) Dantski past that kinda unknown
(10:37:04 PM) Krill: but what we had a rough agreement on was that these were teh techs that we wanted doing in the first round:
(10:37:34 PM) Dantski what alpha monarchy IW something?
(10:37:53 PM) Krill: Maths, Monarchy, Alphabet (mine via oracle), CoL, Currency, IW, HBR, MC.
(10:38:01 PM) Krill: One for each team
(10:38:08 PM) Krill: that would be part of the alliance
(10:38:18 PM) Dantski need to reread what we voted on
(10:38:29 PM) Mukha: brokering, no other restrictioins
(10:38:30 PM) Mukha: i think
(10:38:50 PM) Krill: the teams that researched the cheaper techs would also have to provide ancient era techs to help even up the costs. For instance, I could do with trading for pottery
(10:38:55 PM) Krill: Yeah, Brokering is on
(10:39:05 PM) Krill: So you'd have to get out some warriors and start scouting
(10:39:39 PM) Dantski id like to but
(10:39:41 PM) Krill: but to be frank, if you don;t want to scout out new trading partners you aren't going to get many trades anyway
(10:39:43 PM) Dantski muk doesn't listen to me
(10:39:58 PM) Krill: Oh, really?
(10:40:11 PM) Mukha: yes well he is dead weight
(10:40:15 PM) Dantski well i think my contribution ended after leader pick
(10:40:33 PM) Krill: did you have some concerns?
(10:40:39 PM) Dantski yes
(10:40:40 PM) Krill: or rather, do you?
(10:40:41 PM) Mukha: we are in the process of building scouts
(10:40:52 PM) Dantski we need to road up between us
(10:40:55 PM) Mukha: it's our immediate goal to get some research discounts
(10:41:03 PM) Dantski so your war chariots can invade faster
(10:41:09 PM) Krill: You want an NAP?
(10:41:22 PM) Krill: Dude, join the tech alliance and you can have one until turn 120
(10:41:22 PM) Dantski yeah although
(10:41:41 PM) Dantski neither of us are nap fans
(10:41:43 PM) Mukha: my vote is: done
(10:42:05 PM) Dantski but yeah im ok with the UTA being refounded
(10:42:28 PM) Mukha: i hate the temptation that some teams feel to use an expiring NAP as a reason to start plotting
(10:42:39 PM) Krill: strategically speaking, tech alliances were always going to play a part with the insane tech costs and maintence
(10:43:01 PM) Krill: Well, if it is any help, You probably have Exploit to your north
(10:43:08 PM) Krill: Rome to your NW
(10:43:11 PM) Krill: France to your S
(10:43:20 PM) Krill: Aztec are to the E of India
(10:43:34 PM) Mukha: well exploit is on the record as being fairly anti alliances isn't he?
(10:43:35 PM) Krill: and HR are to your SW somewhere
(10:43:38 PM) Krill: Yeah
(10:43:52 PM) Mukha: so let's not invite him
(10:43:57 PM) Krill: Which is one of the reasons we all agreed to not allow him into the alliance
(10:44:05 PM) Krill: So you are fully on board?
(10:44:10 PM) Mukha: yes
(10:44:12 PM) Krill: cool
(10:44:31 PM) Krill: Well
(10:44:33 PM) Mukha: but it's still a long way to writing for us at current rates
(10:44:36 PM) Krill: France have also been vetoed
(10:44:45 PM) Krill: mate, I'm happy to trade you writing
(10:44:46 PM) Mukha: do you have a rough idea for time till alphabet?
(10:44:51 PM) Krill: I can Oracle alphabet turn 62
(10:45:14 PM) Krill: I'll need to trade for BW and pottery though
(10:45:32 PM) Dantski we need to find the water tiles
(10:45:38 PM) Mukha: we'll have pottery by then I'm pretty sure, need to check my micro plan
(10:45:41 PM) Dantski and plant 2 cities for great lighthouse on them
(10:45:43 PM) Krill: Unfortunately it is TBG
(10:45:52 PM) Krill: so there aren't any 20 tile lakes
(10:46:04 PM) Krill: or is it 10?
(10:46:11 PM) Krill: Either way
(10:46:20 PM) Krill: Do you have the Wheel already?
(10:46:27 PM) Mukha: i think we calculated 47 lake tiles
(10:46:38 PM) Krill: Probably spread about the map
(10:47:08 PM) Mukha: no, we are still dragging our way to AH, once we have the sheep hooked up we should move a little quicker
(10:47:25 PM) Krill: hmm, ok. One of the tings were were looking at, is the tech costs
(10:48:16 PM) Mukha: so our previous plan before your oracle alphabet idea was for alphabet ourselves, but we would be happy to supply maths instead
(10:48:27 PM) Krill: because of the time it takes to reach pottery, we agreed that it is probably best if only 1 team researches it, a team that already has the Wheel. Once Alphabet is in, everyone can trade for Pottery, and lose at most 5 ish turns of being able to cottage
(10:48:49 PM) Krill: Well, right now we're still sorting out who wants in.
(10:48:55 PM) Mukha: right
(10:49:07 PM) Krill: Absolutely no techs have been assigned after the techs each team is currently researching
(10:49:19 PM) Krill: except my path because it's kinda the most important one
(10:49:43 PM) Mukha: right well we are 4T till AH, 2 turns of money then 7 till wheel
(10:50:14 PM) Krill: Don't you have Fishing?
(10:50:19 PM) Mukha: yes
(10:52:02 PM) Mukha: pottery should be a bit quicker for us with all the prerequisites
(10:52:17 PM) Mukha: do you know if india could send a scout to us?
(10:52:31 PM) Krill: I'll ask them now
(10:53:25 PM) Krill: Asked
(10:53:57 PM) Krill: TBH, I think you are a good candidate to provide Sailing.
(10:54:06 PM) Krill: Don;t know of many others that have Fishing
(10:54:19 PM) Krill: It's just that we can't have one team provide all of the ancient era techs
(10:54:47 PM) Krill: teams that research the cheaper techs, IW, HBR, maths need to provide something extra to balance out CoL etc
(10:54:55 PM) Krill: consdiering that Col is 630 beakers
(10:55:01 PM) Krill: and IW only 360
(10:56:35 PM) Krill: It's not like we want to go and say to each team "You are teching this this and this in that order"
(10:56:41 PM) Mukha: I'll have to have another look at the river situation
(10:57:13 PM) Mukha: yeah, i think I can safely say on behalf of our team that we just get too much of a commerce bonus not to tech pottery ourselves as soon as possible
(10:57:16 PM) Krill: Do you know how many turns it would take you to reach pottery?
(10:57:58 PM) Krill: currently we are, what, 25 turns from trading
(10:58:02 PM) Dantski ill login and take a look
(10:58:11 PM) Krill: and it is 12 turns until you say you can finish Wheel
(10:58:27 PM) Krill: If it takes you 10 turns to research it...
(10:58:44 PM) Mukha: ok so if you're getting writing alphabet and we're getting pottery we would have to find quite a few other techs to make up the costs
(10:58:47 PM) Krill: is it worth spending all of those beakers for an extra 3 turns of cottages?
(10:58:54 PM) Mukha: it takes 7 turns at 100% i think
(10:59:14 PM) Krill: So 4-5 turns extra of getting cottages
(10:59:20 PM) Mukha: who else was on pottery? or do you mean someone else who has wheel should be on pottery duty?
(10:59:28 PM) Krill: the latter, probably
(11:00:10 PM) Krill: We haven't talked to everyone yet, which is why this is all up in the air
(11:00:33 PM) Mukha: right, did you mention already what techs HRE and India were currently on?
(11:00:47 PM) Krill: Bw and AH
(11:01:07 PM) Krill: India said exactly the same thing as you about pottery btw, when I was persuading them
(11:01:26 PM) Krill: they agreed that it was not worth researching pottery if they could trade for it.
(11:01:37 PM) Mukha: right but our immediate bonus is bigger than theirs
(11:01:54 PM) Krill: It's not necessarily the bonus in researching the tech though
(11:02:09 PM) Krill: it's the amount of time you have it afterwards to reap the payoff, compared to just trading for it
(11:02:47 PM) Krill: Which is why getting Alphabet so early skews the entire equation
(11:03:06 PM) Mukha: yes
(11:03:19 PM) Krill: For instance, pottery and Wheel are worth about 250 adjusted beakers
(11:03:50 PM) Krill: That's just more than 100 beakers shy of IW
(11:04:16 PM) Krill: so if you imagine all of the commerce you lost from not cottaging for those 5 turns, and compared it to working the silver for the extra turns...
(11:04:26 PM) Mukha: well, IW could be another of our other targets
(11:05:00 PM) Krill: Yup. We won;t know who is in or not until tomorrow, maybe later
(11:05:02 PM) Mukha: yes, but who exactly is doing pottery then?
(11:05:17 PM) Mukha: heh you didn't want to do it? you didn't want india or us to do it?
(11:05:44 PM) Krill: We need to wait and see. I honestly don;t know, which is why I'm not saying that you aren't going to research pottery
(11:05:52 PM) Krill: Because you might be the team
(11:06:08 PM) Krill: I'm just saying, be flexible
(11:06:08 PM) Mukha: right ok, I don't want to come across as saying we've locked in our techs
(11:06:26 PM) Mukha: we'll just tech whatever is best for the alliance to get a future goal
(11:06:47 PM) Krill: I think the aims is that by t75 maths and Monarchy are down
(11:06:54 PM) Krill: as well as HBR, IW
(11:07:06 PM) Krill: so all of the core classical techs
(11:08:11 PM) Mukha: right, i Need to find a guide to reserach discounts online somewhere, the fact that discounts are calculated after beakers
(11:08:15 PM) Mukha: hurts my brain
(11:08:29 PM) Krill: way it works is thus
(11:08:36 PM) Mukha: then we can give a more exact answer to time to various techs
(11:08:38 PM) Krill: take the number of beakers you are making in the top left of the screen
(11:08:43 PM) Krill: add one
(11:08:57 PM) Krill: multiply it by however many optional prerequisite techs you have
(11:09:08 PM) Krill: those are the techs that have arrows leading to the tech you are researching
(11:09:14 PM) Mukha: yeah
(11:09:24 PM) Krill: ie fishing and agri are optional prerequisites
(11:09:31 PM) Krill: each one is worth 0.2
(11:09:45 PM) Krill: so if you had both, 1+0.2+0.2 = 1.4
(11:09:47 PM) Mukha: ok so we get 1.4 times
(11:09:56 PM) Mukha: plus whoever else we know who has pottery
(11:09:57 PM) Krill: if you are making 19 beakers in the top left, add one for 20
(11:10:00 PM) Mukha: not sure about that bonus
(11:10:02 PM) Krill: times 1.4 = 28
(11:10:15 PM) Krill: the bonus for other people is this
(11:10:28 PM) Krill: take the number of people you know who have the tech already
(11:10:41 PM) Krill: and devide it by the number of players in the game
(11:11:01 PM) Krill: and multiply by 0.3
(11:11:01 PM) Dantski damnit krill
(11:11:08 PM) Krill: then add 1
(11:11:14 PM) Dantski muks gonan bombard me with excel spreadsheets now
(11:11:21 PM) Mukha: heh
(11:11:21 PM) Krill: Your loss
(11:11:29 PM) Dantski you want a new teammate?
(11:11:46 PM) Mukha: damn i thought i had finished micro plan with version 13.6
(11:11:56 PM) Krill: so if 4 people know pottery, and you have met all of them, that is 4/16*0.3=0.075+1=1.075
(11:12:14 PM) Krill: that number you get out at the end is then multiplied by the tech prerequisite number you generated beforehand
(11:12:44 PM) Krill: so 1.075*1.4=1.505
(11:12:48 PM) Krill: however!
(11:13:10 PM) Krill: You must round DOWN after every calculation to the nearest beaker
(11:13:47 PM) Krill: so (19+1) beakers * 1.075= 21.5 = 21
(11:13:58 PM) Krill: 21*1.4 = 29
(11:14:35 PM) Mukha: right ok, well that should help a heck of a lot
(11:14:41 PM) Mukha: thanks for that masterclass
(11:15:11 PM) Krill: np
(11:15:21 PM) Mukha: actually if school is still in session
(11:15:30 PM) Krill: yes...?
(11:15:38 PM) Mukha: is there a simple formula for calculating city maintenance?
(11:15:49 PM) Krill: yes but I don;t know it
(11:15:55 PM) Krill: and it isn;t simple
(11:16:02 PM) Krill: it has square roots in it and everything
(11:16:02 PM) Dantski lets ally with someone who knows
(11:16:11 PM) Mukha: yeah, afraid we're out
(11:16:27 PM) Krill: OK, my war chariots are on their way
(11:17:00 PM) Mukha: probably should warn you I photoshopped our horse archers out
(11:17:41 PM) Mukha: ok, so I think we've agreed to form an alliance, details to be decided later?
(11:17:47 PM) Krill: Yeah
(11:18:06 PM) Krill: I'd sggest that you get a warrior out asap and send him NE and then SE under India
(11:18:16 PM) Krill: get as many contacts as possible asap
(11:18:23 PM) Mukha: we have a warrior on our eastern border
(11:18:39 PM) Krill: gj
(11:19:07 PM) Mukha: does india have a warrior out near us somewhere do you know?
(11:19:22 PM) Krill: I think they have one to their SW, but I'm not sure what it is doing
(11:21:17 PM) Mukha: do you know anything about rome's team? S&S?
(11:23:13 PM) Krill: Nope, only how to play the civ
(11:23:16 PM) Krill: and the leader
(11:23:29 PM) Krill: tbh they are maybes for hte alliance
(11:23:32 PM) Mukha: ok we'll do the maths with your formulas and see what techs we can get out of the list by the time you get alphabet
(11:23:39 PM) Krill: cool
(11:25:30 PM) Mukha: ok, so we'll talk again soon
(11:25:40 PM) Krill: Cool, have a good evening
(11:26:03 PM) Dantski wait a sec
(11:26:04 PM) Mukha: thanks and evening to you isn't it?
(11:26:11 PM) Dantski what was arsenal porto result?
(11:26:20 PM) Krill: 2-1 to Porto
(11:26:28 PM) Dantski ahh thanks
(11:26:43 PM) Mukha: see, that's what I have to put with in my spoiler thread
(11:26:46 PM) Krill: Mukha, what do you mean? What is the proper response?
(11:27:27 PM) Mukha: i was asking if you were in an evening time zone in which case good evening
(11:27:36 PM) Mukha: sorry just wasn't sure where you were
(11:27:39 PM) Dantski its 11.30
(11:27:45 PM) Dantski krill is uk like me
(11:27:51 PM) Mukha: ah right
(11:27:54 PM) Krill: Yeah, I'm in the UK
(11:28:11 PM) Dantski cant expect an american to know foot results
(11:28:49 PM) Mukha: you have to balance your posts in the spoiler threads with ones about civ
(11:28:56 PM) Mukha: they can't all be about soccer
(11:29:03 PM) Krill: Yes they can
(11:29:09 PM) Dantski you can talk about aussie rules too
(11:29:23 PM) Dantski although its very confusing
(11:29:31 PM) Mukha: ok, every post can be about soccer but you have to connect it with an analogy to our civ game
(11:30:07 PM) Dantski so killing a wolf
(11:30:17 PM) Dantski is like police beating up mad supporter?
(11:30:50 PM) Mukha: i agree with the mitchell and webb view on soccer "it will never truly be decided just who has won the football. the football is officially going on forever"
(11:31:06 PM) Krill: It's the way it should be
(11:31:07 PM) Mukha: anyway, with that i think i'll call it a day
(11:31:12 PM) Krill: good night

[Krill]

Chat with DIM.

It's all starting to fall together...

(11:35:05 PM) DIM: I'm getting Ottomans on board
(11:35:13 PM) Krill: Cool
(11:35:32 PM) Krill: Most of my time was spent convincing Portugal that they don't necessarily have to research pottery
(11:35:40 PM) Krill: You might end up in the same position
(11:35:56 PM) Krill: unless Ottoamans have wheel in which case they are probably the best team to research pottery
(11:36:22 PM) DIM: i think they are researching in the future
(11:37:03 PM) Krill: hmmm?
(11:37:12 PM) DIM: sorry pottery
(11:37:44 PM) Krill: either way, make them get out 2 scouts, one to go south, one to go west, if they want in the alliance
(11:37:51 PM) Krill: we all need contact in the next 25 turns.
(11:38:01 PM) Krill: scout/warrior
(11:38:13 PM) DIM: they are concerned they will be surrounded by allies and have no room to expand...
(11:38:25 PM) Krill: Korea is to their west.
(11:38:32 PM) DIM: I told them
(11:38:41 PM) Krill: And point out the other option is probably to be surrounded by enemies
(11:38:49 PM) Krill: well, perhaps not
(11:38:58 PM) Krill: but you understand, I'm sure
(11:39:05 PM) DIM: yup
(11:39:22 PM) Krill: Not like we are all trying to grow in their directino and crowd them out.
(11:39:31 PM) Krill: but I don;t think there is anyone to their NE?
(11:39:38 PM) Krill: according to our understanding, anyway
(11:41:11 PM) DIM: Aztec is to their Ne
(11:41:22 PM) Krill: Mostly to their north though
(11:41:43 PM) Krill: do you know how many tiles east of India Aztecs are?
(11:41:54 PM) Krill: and how many tiles east of India Otto are?
(11:42:49 PM) DIM: i think Rego told me Aztec was 12 tiles E
(11:43:08 PM) Krill: Ottomans probably have enough space for a dozen cities
(11:43:17 PM) Krill: and an out to their NE.
(11:43:23 PM) DIM: yeah i know
(11:43:39 PM) Krill: So, your the diplomat, go twist their arm
(11:44:05 PM) DIM: I'm at it
(11:45:03 PM) DIM: Ottomans are 14 tiles E
(11:45:23 PM) DIM: anyway he needs to discuss it with the team
(11:45:33 PM) DIM: but I think I've made my point
(11:45:51 PM) Krill: Fair enough
(11:46:02 PM) Krill: Hopefully they see the light
(11:46:18 PM) Krill: btw, you said something about Mono earlier?
(11:46:48 PM) DIM: yeah, will you be going for that after you discover Alfa?
(11:47:00 PM) Krill: I'm not sure
(11:47:13 PM) Krill: I wouldn;t have anything else to tech though
(11:47:23 PM) DIM: my point
(11:47:54 PM) Krill: I take it you don;t want it?
(11:48:12 PM) DIM: well I'm more interested in Org Rel tbh
(11:48:59 PM) Krill: Well, sufficed to say I'd be happy to gift you Jewish and Hindu missionaries as well as Mono if I went that way
(11:49:31 PM) Krill: The more people that have one of my religions as the one true faith, the more gold I can give to people to research with
(11:50:22 PM) DIM: yup
(11:55:23 PM) DIM: I think we have them
(11:55:31 PM) Krill: Cool
(11:55:35 PM) Krill: 5 total then
(11:55:44 PM) DIM: at least I've convinced WarriorKnight
(11:57:09 PM) Krill: It's a start
(2/18/2010 12:01:38 AM) DIM: they will send chariots to meet with you and the others

[Krill]

Another (redundant) message from DIM. I kinda feel like a secret agent setting up this alliance.

I've spoken to WarriorKnight of Ottomans. He will discuss the tech alliance with his team members and will get back to us asap

[Krill]

Had a chat with sunrise on TeamSpeak (sorry, no transcripts for you )

Went over these points:

1. Ancient era techs, we may have to just bite the bullet in sunrises opinion and accept that classical era techs will be delayed (which I can live with if one of them is CoL...that would be my fourth religion if I can bulb it). Some civs are just going to tech pottery no matter what we do. This leads onto the next point/
   
   
   
2. Overexpansion and tech pace. I pointed out I don't want to gift away Alphabet for nothing (and I won't, no matter what agreement). If a civ expands to 3 cities and techs, getting a good pace to their tech, then that's OK. Expand to 5 cities and tank their tech, and I might have to be a bastard and tell them they aren't getting Alphabet until they get their act together. Sunrises' words were along the lines of "You're already considered to be a bastard, so no harm there".
   
   
   
3. What to do with civs that we can't find techs for: we both agreed to just let them bank gold until Currency came in, and we could always forward some important techs...we both agreed that as RBPB1 showed, a counter alliance will appear and we need to make sure it is too weak to do any damage to us. A phrase from Sgt. Colon springs to mind: "It's better to have them inside pissing out than outside pissing on us". This is why he is now happy to have Rome in the Alliance, and throw him at Exploit or someone.
   
   
   
4. Closer cooperation: We both kinda agreed that we want to work closely together. Sunrise admitted that they were likely to send me their GP for a GS, and didn't expect the GS the same turn, but nor would they accept it 200 turns later...which I'm happy with, I can quite easily bulb Theo/CoL with the first 2 GP if I have to, CoL would be due t88, whithout a single preist running, albeit with a delayed Shrine...
   
   He also agreed with the idea of me being their funder. I suggested the GL gambit to him, where I would provide GS for Academies for them, if I got the GL and NE quickly enough (I admitted I could get them in 1 turn apiece, which isn't a great admission after I did a 1 turn Oracle).
   
   
   
5. Exploit: I prodded a bit, turns out he thinks Exploit is a loose cannon, which is a fitting description IMO. We agreed that with a few more dead civs the map would probably be OK for the later eras. So a dead Sumeria and France are kinda on the cards for the founding 3 (F3 maybe?)

As much as I hate to say it, I seem to be having problems working with India. I know they are a 4 player team...but Darrell spooked me with his comment on religions at the start of the three way chat, as did sooooo with his comments. I can't see them being all that happy that I'm aiming for 5 religions, unless they know I'm in their pocket, and funding them...

[zakalwe]

You're doing a great job updating this thread. In fact, you're updating it faster than I can keep up. Would love a short summary of events and the diplomatic landscape so far...