RBPB4 Lurker Thread

[zakalwe]

Hmmm yeah, no pauses and no agreed-upon way of resolving disputes could be an interesting combo.

[Amelia]

Locke pretty much summed up Mackoti and Ioan

1) Netherlands pick: This is worst pick in whole draft. You guarantee last leader pick to get crummy civ. Starting techs are nothing special. UU is a ship lol. This is terrible first pick.

Seriously, can anyone enlighten me on Netherlands first pick, apart from the fact that Dikes are strong in the right circumstances?

[Krill]

Because I said there would be a fair amount of water is the only conceivable reason that I can come up with, and even that isn't enough to make the Dutch a good civ.

[Shoot the Moon]

Because I said there would be a fair amount of water is the only conceivable reason that I can come up with, and even that isn't enough to make the Dutch a good civ.

Yeah, they must have read WAAAAY too much into your statement or else have just been really (for that matter, reading so much into your statement was anyway).

[Tatan]

As someone who's actually playing the Dutch, I have to agree with the critics. Even if you are going for a water civ, Portugal is better in pretty much every way; Carracks can come into play in the medieval era much more easily, and Feitorias actually have a hope in hell of getting built, albeit far too late to make an impact.

If it were a medieval start or something I could see the Dutch being a risky late pick, similar to England with an ancient start, but otherwise they effectively have a late UU and no UB.

[Square Leg]

In a SP game which is going to last a long time on an island orientated map, FDR of the Netherlands is a pretty good shout. Darrell showed us that FDR is your best bet at landing the Great Lighthouse early and the Dyke is nice if you have a long game so that it figures...

As the first choice in the snake pick here I really question why you would choose Netherlands first over FDR even if that was your strategy...

[Krill]

GL is over-rated, you can get embargoes against it, just need to work at the diplomacy. Colossus can beat it but is harder to land in the same sort of time scale, but doesn't rely on anyone else, which is one of the reasons my GNP blew Darrells' away even though he had the GL and I took a while to get the Colossus after gifting Darrell copper.

[T-hawk]

I wonder if they mentally confused the Netherlands civ with Willem's good traits? That happens on occasion. I recall somebody once talking about picking Mansa Musa to be difficult to rush against (which is actually because of Mali's skirmisher, not Mansa himself.)

[darrelljs]

GL is over-rated, you can get embargoes against it, just need to work at the diplomacy. Colossus can beat it but is harder to land in the same sort of time scale, but doesn't rely on anyone else, which is one of the reasons my GNP blew Darrells' away even though he had the GL and I took a while to get the Colossus after gifting Darrell copper.

Disagree . I had lined up guaranteed open borders with everyone in advance. Your GNP blew mine away because I couldn't expand like I planned due to the Yaz war. With intercontinental bonuses, etc. tGL is better because it is passive. I don't have to work tiles to gain its benefit, and you can focus populace on spamming cities.

Darrell

[Krill]

Being able to set up the OBs was only possible because of 2 reasons: we allowed diplomacy from t0 (which won't be a factor here), that distances needed to be travelled by work boats which moved fast and in a straight line because they could cut through Persepolis, and you weren't far from the middle of the map so were close to everyone for getting contact to get OBs signed in game. Add into that fact that most TRs gave you 3 commerce excluding those from my mainland cities which were the only ones you could get for a while for a 4 commerce bonus/city.

Absolutely none of those are going to be possible here: every capital is going to be landlocked (4 tiles in every direction), it's a lakes map where the lakes need cities and forts to become interconnected so neither can you explore quickly to find every player you need to get OBs nor is there a quick way to connect trade routes up. There is only going to be one land mass so the trade routes are only worth 2 cpt, so the bonuns is only 2cpt/city, ie 2 colossus coast/city. And the dimensions of the map are going to be pretty nasty when it comes to scouting,players are going to have to zig zag all over the place and there is no way to get woody 2 warriors or scouts for contact.

But, to use the simple answer, you relied on Yaz neither declaring war on you or putting up much resistance. That he put a crimp on your trade routes shows that the GL is dependent on other people.