[SPOILERS]The Serdoa way of civ

[Old Harry]

If everyone assumes the oracle is yours couldn't you leave it late? Like as late as cs? (i'm not saying they do btw)

[Serdoa]

Good point, but I don't know that. Someone might even go for it a little early, just to fuck with my "obvious gameplan". Though, in general yes, I'd expect I could leave it for a little bit. Till CS? No way. I can't get enough research to finish Pottery, Writing, Maths, CoL, Myst, Meditation and Priesthood before someone else is going to build it. They certainly do some kind of C&D (except for mackoti I'd guess), and if they realize I research other stuff first, they will go for it. And as I have no way to know for certain till it is too late I would have to gamble on it.

Of course, I could simply forego the Oracle-line till the very end, so that the gamble is relatively small. But thats basically already the question I pose to myself: Do I go for the religious line first or do I go for the "economic" line first? The economic line is clearly the stronger of the two, though I do have some more incentive than others with the Ziggurat at Priesthood. Still, having Currency is a BIG advantage. If I can find enough place on islands for 2 cities, those would basically pay most of the expenses of a new city (2c each + 1c for the center tile + 1c for religion with shrine = 6c for every newfound city if I can have a missionary walking with the settler, though even 5c would be great).

[Serdoa]

Update: Grew to size 4 this turn (T17). Will finish BW next turn and immediately go into Slavery (yeah SPI). Everything else is still boring because lets face it, I produced worker, warrior, warrior (not finished), settler till now. Thats ... not all that unusual.

I'll hope to give a more proper update soon.

[Serdoa]

I guess I really should do an update, shouldn't I?

[NobleHelium]

Yes.

[Old Harry]

Yes.

+1

Who've you met so far? When do you kill them?

[Serdoa]

Who've you met so far? When do you kill them?

I've met everyone except mackoti (I think I know where he is, but my scout had more important matters to attend to). I'm not going to kill them anytime soon. When I learned one thing, then it is that stinging your opponents early can be helpful, but going on a full-blown war is not. If an opportunity arises I certainly will take it - and maybe I will have to war, simply because I fall back and waiting will only have me fall back further. Though to be honest, if that happens, it probably means that I've lost, because if I attack one of the 3 of mackoti(s cousin), Seven or novice then the other two will run away with the game. I think mackoti once stated that his cousin actually plays better than him. Not 100% sure on that, but for now I will be very cautious of him and certainly won't underestimate him.

The only one I don't see as much as a threat is Nicolae - and thats because he has no time and I'm not even sure if he still plays or if someone else has already taken over. Or rather, I don't see him as a threat to win - I do see him as a very big threat to disrupt the game for someone. Especially if now someone else has taken over. Nicolae knows very well how much or how little an early war will benefit him and he certainly would only go for a quick disruptive action, not for a real war. If someone takes over? That might very well be someone in the mindset of Commodore (attack, attack, attack, no matter if it helps myself or not) or Davy (I want to see the world burn, no matter if it helps myself or not) and that could easily lead to me losing because I will probably have soon a much higher score than the others and therefore be a prime target for the middle-tier player (the top-tier here knows that my high score is just artificially due to wonders and won't stay that as soon as everyone gets more pop, techs, etc.).

Don't ge me wrong though, I don't think my chances of winning are over 5% anyways - but as long as I was certain that nearly equally experienced players are playing I saw myself able to win, with some luck. But if someone less experienced joins, it can easily come down to whom he decides to attack. That doesn't have to do much with skill btw. It is really only experience I'm talking about. If you have not experienced how quickly a Seven or novice can jump ahead suddenly, you won't be able to play accordingly. You'll have to learn it as you play - and that will probably not be fast enough.

Anyhow, we'll see how that will go when we come to it. For now we are all still building up our empires and try to get our cities down. I'll make a quick rundown on techs, cities, military everyone has (according to my C&D, so I might be wrong on some points):

Techs

Everyone has: The Wheel, Agri, AH, Mining, BW and Mysticism

Novice has: Poly
Seven has: Pottery, Hunting
Nicolae has: Pottery, Hunting
mackoti has: Writing
Serdoa has: Meditation, Pottery, Prieshood

I'm unsure about Myst for Nicolae and I think Seven started Hunting, changed to Pottery and finished Hunting the turn after, but I am not sure.

However, I feel confident that mackoti is going for a quick Academy, probably putting a city north of the capital, moving capital there, together with Academy and Bureau you'll have a great commerce city (12 riverside grassland). I'll probably do the same, just a little bit later. We'll say if it pays off to delay for wonders (probably not to be honest, I think my civ and leader are not that great for this map and I would have been better off with China).

The others I think are doing the more traditional way of getting Pottery first and cottaging around the cap and probably a city for horses. As for what else they do:

Novice:

3 cities, sizes 3 (capital), 4 and 1. The last one was planted this turn (T33). His military consists of 5 warriors as of now.

Seven:

2 cities, sizes 5 (capital) and 2. Only 3 warriors.

Nicolae:

2 cities, sizes 5 (capital) and 2. Also 3 warriors - but additionally 1 War Chariot. He has finished it T33, so it can potentially reach me at around T40. I will have either copper connected and a Spear ready or Archery. But I'd rather have the Spear as Archers would make me safe in cities but not against harassment. I really do hope he looks to novice (who's second city is planted in Nicolaes direction) instead of me. But thats what I meant before: If Nicolae still plays, I am certain he understands that we two are the weakest players + novice is planting up on him and I would be certain he would go there. A new player? He might see me having Stonehenge + Oracle soon (I hope at least) and will think I am the better target, just for high score.

mackoti:

2 cities, sizes 5 (capital) and 1. 3 Warriors only. Not much more to say, as I haven't even met him yet.

[Old Harry]

Thanks Serdoa, that analysis of player skills and how they affect strategy is interesting.

I'd love to see a list of who on Realms Beyond falls into the top-, mid- and lower-tier. But I guess part of the attraction of RB is the lack of rankings and ladders - and so the emphasis on trying new things rather than winning at all costs (not that that always works out).

[Serdoa]

Thanks Serdoa, that analysis of player skills and how they affect strategy is interesting.

I'd love to see a list of who on Realms Beyond falls into the top-, mid- and lower-tier. But I guess part of the attraction of RB is the lack of rankings and ladders - and so the emphasis on trying new things rather than winning at all costs (not that that always works out).

Well, to be clear on that, I don't think I belong in the top-tier of players on RB, so I am not sure if I would be the right one to make a ranking, as I easily might under- or overestimate someone just due to my own lacking skills.

Also, I think who belongs into top-tier is pretty obvious for everyone who has played here some time (Krill, Seven, mackoti, ...). There are some which could be either lower top or upper middle. But that shows already how hard it is to really do a ranking, even in tiers. Also games take long and players get better over time (most of the time at least). Therefore someone considered middle-tier could be already lower top-tier, but without a chance to show it. Additionally I think many of the guys here are actually pretty good players but should try to play against the best players here, because you'll only get better if you actually have to compete against those players.

[Serdoa]

I've played T37 and it seems someone is already actively warring. Nicolae lost soldier points - I'm just not sure how many. I should be actually, because I have his graphs, but I forgot to look at them AFTER I ended turn (because at that point the whole game-turn rolls over and I get the updated graphs for the turn I played - would I be first in turn order I would have to wait always till the turn reaches me again... doesn't help of course if I don't look ).

Anyhow, end of next turn I should also have novices graphs and with those I only miss mackoti (whom I still haven't met). That should help give me an idea who is doing what. By now it is really hard to gauge just by looking at the demographics who has built what. I'm certain that Nicolae has 3 War Chariots, I assume that it is possible that someone else has one as well, though till now (except last turn) I wouldn't have seen an increase of 4000 points at once for anyone else.

As for myself, I still haven't even culturally reached the horses, much less the copper. I wouldn't be to happy if Nicolae would have gunned for me, but knowing that he knew about novices city right next to him (he had a warrior there when I scouted it) I think it was reasonable to assume that he would not come for me. Even if though, he would certainly have needed some more turns as he finished his 2nd war chariot on T34. I will finish Archery T39. Those 5 turns wouldn't have been enough I believe, as he hasn't settled in my direction and I didn't settle in his (or at most 2-3 tiles closer than the capital).

However, I have a feeling that I am falling behind slowly. I have 3 cities with 8 pop, which is among the leaders (novice and Seven each have 3 with a total of 9 pop). But building SH and the Oracle has certainly cost me some momentum. I only have 4 workers by now and no tiles are improved for more growth. My plan to rectify that is:

2 more workers from city 2 by T41
1 settler by T40 from the capital
1 settler by T45 from city 2
1 archer by T41 from city 3

Optional: 1 settler by T45 from the capital

That should get me to 6 cities by T50 which all will work improved tiles. Together with a hopefully increased happy cap I will then start on moving my capital to my cottage-heaven-city, get several missionaries from city 2, settle my GP for a shrine and work on Currency.

Overview of all I have scouted (map is tilted to the right to get all on one screenie) - BIG!