You Just Lost Thug Aim

[pindicator]

How about a Darius city 2N of the fish?

Here was tonight's chat:

lewwyn: hey

pindicator: hey

lewwyn: AH feels best to you?

pindicator: yeah, it gets Joao's capital up and running the fastest
i looked at BW -> Agri -> AH a little today, and that's a little slower than AH -> BW
the settler is a turn later, and you don't have as many tile improvements
so i recommend AH first

lewwyn: okay
what about HRE?
I'm not sure I agree with WB>WB
or is it still WB>Worker?

pindicator: i had WB -> WB to 2 -> worker -> finish wb and grow to 3 -> settler
so interrupt the 2nd wb at size 2 to get the worker out
i haven't looked at that as much as joao b/c i hadn't thought of an alternative worth exploring

lewwyn: what tiles are youo working?

pindicator: t0-2 grass forest
t3-5 plains forest
then fish for a turn to get to size 2
worker gets done in 5 turns with Fish + plains forest
then Fish & plains forest after the worker finishes for 3t
gets the wb to 15/20 and the city food to size 2 12/16 food
worker finishes the grass mine on t15 so we grow to 3 and finish the wb at the same turn
then Fish, Clam, and grass mine at size 3 while building a settler
worker then chops a tree into the settler before farming the rice
we coudl reverse that last bit

lewwyn: so worker pops T11

pindicator: yeah
then Fish + plains forest while building the wb

lewwyn: we doing AH>BW?

pindicator: yep

lewwyn: how fast would AH>AGR be?

pindicator: AH-> Agri you wouldn't be able to chop into the settler, but you'd farm the rice with the worker instead
i'd still mine the grass hill first b/c that gets the wb out sooner
so Darius settler would be 1t slower
so would the Joao settler
slower by 1t

lewwyn: so size 3 working mine, fish, crab?

pindicator: yeah
that'd be starting t16

lewwyn: what if Darius swapped into Slavery

pindicator: lol, i didn't even think of slavery
omg

lewwyn: yeah
the rice becomes uge

pindicator: yeah

lewwyn: crab, fish, rice, grow to 4 fast whip settler
how does that figure in?
I've been thinking
that BW might be best first because we could get Darius into slavery earlier
like swap when we're working less tiles

pindicator: BW first wouldn't be awful for Joao, but it would be slower for him

lewwyn: I have to admit though the AH seems best
yeah
paturing that cow that fast

pindicator: yeah, that cow is huge for Joaoa
oaoaoaoa

lewwyn: allows for the EXP bonus + extar food
and hey we get to see horses
so theres that

pindicator: true

lewwyn: So I'm on board for AH first I think
and BW next

pindicator: k

lewwyn: Slavery might be nonstarter before we get that first settler out of Darius
so we'll see

pindicator: yeah, i don't know if we could get a whip going fast enough to speed up the settler
probably have to whip the 2nd wb out
if we do that
well, BW wouldn't come until t15 anyway

lewwyn: right
so lets forget about it for now

pindicator: k

lewwyn: comms onnline

pindicator: we can always change as we scout stuff out too

lewwyn: You've been invited to this chat room!
hey comm we were just discussing stuff

Commodore: Sweet
I'm seeing both sides re:Agriculture

lewwyn: Pindi has convinced me that AH first is probably the best way to go

Commodore: Cool

lewwyn: I mean pasturing the cow is huge, and being able to start pasturing it the first worker turn is huge

Commodore: Getting chariots potentially online is a biggie too.

lewwyn: yeah
I mentioned that to pindi earlier
So I'm on board for AH>BW

pindicator: are either of you in game?

lewwyn: I can't access it right now, the civ compy is elsewhere, I'll be able to log in later today though in afew hours

lewwyn:

pindicator: i was a little paranoid that i may be wrong in my timing, just would like to make sure that AH does finish in 7t

lewwyn: Brick isn't actually there is he...lol
pin when does the worker finish for Joao?

pindicator: the first one? end of t6
same as AH

lewwyn: okay good

pindicator: which is why i got a feeling i should dbl check that in game

lewwyn: hah yeah
so do we like Worker>warrior grow to 2 for Joao? or staright up worker worker

pindicator: i like worker -> warrior grow to 2
get onto that cow & mined sheep ASAP
then sit at 2

lewwyn: we need a warrior anyway plus being able to work 2 tiles speeds the second worker considerably with exp

Ellimist: hey

Commodore: Yeah, insane yeild

lewwyn: man I love Joao
BTW first city out of Joao has to be near the largest clump of forests we can find

pindicator: i've never really gotten to play with him before in MP, but i am really excited to see him go

lewwyn: then we just chop the crap out of that city for workers and settlers

pindicator: how should we scout? circle around our cities and look for good city spots? or head out and meet the neighbors?

lewwyn: I alos love how close the two civs are

pindicator: yeah, joao will be able to gift to darius pretty early on

lewwyn: huge bonus there
I want to whip a granary in Darius capital asap too

Ellimist: I'd think our initial scouting efforts need to focus on our own expansion
that way we play to our strengths

pindicator: yeah, darius needs to grow onto tiles quick
after BW we probably go straight for pottery and get those granaries in

lewwyn: I think AH>BW>AGR>Wheel>Pottery is the best path
we need to tech agr for the rice

pindicator: yeah, agr is definitely worth it
and we'll want that wheat farmed eventually for joao
but best after BW

Commodore: So SW, S for Joao and N, NE Darius?

lewwyn: so big question, do we want to swap Joao into slavery?

pindicator: i dunno if he needs it based on what we see here
i think that depends what is surrounding

lewwyn: yeah

Ellimist: why wouldn't we?

lewwyn: if Joao just sits there building workers the entire tim theres no need to whip
he's got great tiles for it with lots of hammers

Ellimist: yeah but the exp/imp bonuses to hammers won't apply to food unless we whip it
oh, gotcha

lewwyn: yeah I know which is why I its a question
Serdoa just played a Joao game
where he didn't swap and he dominated

Commodore: Yeah, I think Joao will whip a lot in his satellites.

lewwyn: yeah I do think the satilites will whip
I don't think the cap will as much

Commodore: He's here to be hurt.

Ellimist: even if the capital isn't whipped much, plenty of other cities are likely to benefit from it

pindicator: i think we can make that decision when we get a lay of the land

Commodore: Joao is a pitiful enslave worker/settler/gold pump.

lewwyn: here's a thought!
what if the first city of Joaos
is gifted to Darius
theres a river west of Joao's cap
so we send the settler that way and gift it to fin/org darius
Joao keeps pumping workers that we gift to that city
its org so not too much maintenance
its on a river for fin cottages
I mean we need to see if there is a food source

pindicator: yeah, i think that's the general idea of what we're doing
we still want to get a good joao snowball going though

lewwyn: but if we want to gift to Darius maybe every city west of Joao's cap
If we do that then maybe we don't swap to slavery in joao until we are ready to plant a Joao city?
IE first settler goes to Darius and we don't swap. Second settler goes to Joao and we swap then while it moving
I think we want to gift the gems to Darius because it will be whipping more asap
so settling the first two cities toward each other and gifting them to darius helps to achieve that goal
after that first settler joao just pumps oodles of workers that start roading toward darius
and with the first city out of Joao gifted to darius we can gift the workers to darius quickly

pindicator: i dunno if we want to spam darius before we get to CoL

lewwyn: anyway these are my running thoughts on the first settlers/slaveswaps
Darius is still ORG, so you're still getting 50% off costs

pindicator: true
i was thinking a little different
Joao expands quick early like he does best
Darius does a few cities but focuses on libraries & granaries
as soon as we hit CoL
start feeding Darius

lewwyn: I think we might have to sim it to see how much it costs

pindicator: yeah, that would be good to know how much a gifted city to darius that far away would cost us
it is immortal difficulty, so i think it may be noticable early

Commodore: I marked "Violet" as a logical sharer spot
Nets wheat, shares cow too.
Joao will want some cottages.
Although Org Rathaus Darius may shock you for how cheap he is to keep at 100%

pindicator: i hope so
that just means more cities for him

lewwyn: well as a sharer spot that would be a joao city

Commodore: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28594063/38T135/...ot1164.JPG

lewwyn: but I think we need to scout that area more

Commodore: Example Darius city.

lewwyn: the first Joao city needs forests

Commodore: Size 16, costs -2gpt

pindicator: wowza

Commodore: Yeah

pindicator: i still think joao needs to get a good base early on
let darius do the early game teching

Commodore: Not a city went over 3gpt
Until corps
And I was still breaking even on corps with just a market in the founding city.

Ellimist: corps are where rathauses really get crazy anyway

Commodore: With Stock Exchange, Wall Street, Market, Grocer, ought to be truly nuts.

lewwyn: PBEM 22 I was running 100% sci and gaining gold
XD
all those cities on wealth builds

Commodore: Heh, well, yeah
But Joao's cities will be on redcoat builds.

lewwyn: mnyes

Commodore: Imp wants to be doing most the fighting.

lewwyn: we need globe
so how many cities is that

Commodore: Actually, how does the GG counter work in team settings?
Same as GPP?

pindicator: i'm guessing it does

lewwyn: err forget
I wasn't as concerned with GG in PB6

pindicator: yeah, we don't want joao to have too few cities b/c of the UU later on
even late he should still be expanding
just not as fast as darius

Commodore: Well, drafting camps can be crapholes.

pindicator: true

lewwyn: crap holes with food!

Commodore: Food source, farm, go

pindicator: it is quick speed, so they're easier to set up

Commodore: Yeah, dirt cheap and easy
Joao is basically Quick Speed at Normal Speed.

lewwyn: gotta go watch something with thte wife

Commodore: Cool

lewwyn: someone post the convos in thread?
also we can set the scouts going and set tech to AH I think

Commodore: You can end turn if you want, I think I'm sold on AH

lewwyn: probably end turn

Commodore: Scouts internal or external?
I think that lake/river links civs.

pindicator: i do too
i'll post the convo if someone does screenshots
oh, do we have any interest in C&D?

Commodore: Heh, okay, I can End Turn.
Bah, I'll do C&D now:
HHHHHH is listening to Serdoa and CFCJF, but will fudge a bit. Still nets 'henge.
RMoG2 plays slow slow start, cripples expansion for Oracle, but is a good read

Ellimist: SMack gets pyramids

Commodore: SMackrill micros to turn 2801, solves Civ4.

pindicator: heh, we are the only ones who don't care about wonders?

Commodore: I think so
By the way
We're making monuments.
It's gonna suck

Ellimist: monuments to our greatness

Commodore: Right on!

pindicator: monuments have their place

Ellimist: do we have any plans for a religion?
confucianism maybe

Commodore: Looking to see if the Quick Speed culture helps early, though

pindicator: yeah, we should beeline CoL after pottery & writing i think

Commodore: 3rd ring capital pop can help.

Ellimist: so our turn 1 play is to start a monument in our capital right?

Commodore: Already done.

pindicator: sure thing jk

Commodore: Oh, that was your game, wasn't it?
Heh.

Ellimist: lol
yeah Lewwyn's team won it and i was also in it
21

pindicator: i loled so hard at that start

Commodore: Pin, WB with...forest?

pindicator: yeah
for darius
when borders pop we'll switch to the plains forest

Commodore: Right, just checking
He'll need to end turn first on t6 to allow AH for Joao

pindicator: yeah, but joao's worker doesn't finish til end of t6 anyway
besides, i think the rule is we are supposed to end turns on both civs with no actions between

Commodore: Um, no trades

pindicator: ?

Commodore: Finishing half-turn techs is pretty standard.
I mean, we pick which civ nets a religion, etc.

pindicator: oh yeah
definitely do that
k, i'm gonna get some food

Commodore: SMackrill up

[Commodore]

Moved Darius' scout, feel free to move Joao any which way.

[Lewwyn]

Moved Darius' scout, feel free to move Joao any which way.

Do we want to try and scout the area between these two capitals?

[Commodore]

Moved Darius' scout, feel free to move Joao any which way.

Do we want to try and scout the area between these two capitals?

I figured yeah, Joao going SW, NW ought to get everything.

[Commodore]

It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood:

[Commodore]

By the way, not much to do for the next few turns, I say whoever is up and around can grab it when H's roll, scouting in a couple circles of guess. Just remember this turn to more Bristlecone to the plains forest.

Good news on the river/lake hook up.

[Lewwyn]

Yeah I really want to get Darius cities on that river. I think we could get 2 of them there. Maybe a city 3 E of Bristle and then one on the desert hill. That gives us full coverage of the river and at least a pig for the eastern one and corn for the Western one. That means likely Joao's first city could go violet. 2nd onto the desert hill gifted to Darius. If we get those cities to pop borders we should have TRs all the way through the river without sailing and a full road all the way down.

Thoughts?

[Lewwyn]

We're up, but I'm no civ access right now. Remember the Plains forest swap in Bristle. I think the Joao scout goes W-SW on to a forested hill yes? Darius scout maybe SW and then decide from there. Looks like a river which will be nice.

[Commodore]

Okay, scouted. Looks like we found the world wrap in the west!


...and not much else in the middle. Although I'd love to get that Juniper site Darius'd soon.


In general, I'd favor Joao settling his first couple cities for himself. Early-on, he's our start, and Joao snowballing Joao for more Joao is probably our trend line pre-Currency. Exception, obviously, is for fishing villages, which Darius can get up, running, and useful faster and better than Joao. So...Violet first, IMO.

[Commodore]

Just a note, Violet not only shares wheat and cow, but that's a bunch of flood plains from fog-reading.