[SPOILER] The Steak, Beer, and Cigar Saloon

[Catwalk]

Turn 76

Always Wrong has been founded:

My worker got delayed one turn because of Yuri's annoying warrior, really wish we could have signed a 3t NAP for situations like this. I was tempted to kill off his warrior to avoid losing a worker turn, but decided to play it safe and be hospitable. My spear was a tiny bit out of position so it wasn't able to follow the worker every step of the way. Always Wrong will be a decent front city, lots of whipping and chopping potential here. The worker will road next turn, then start pasturing the pigs. Not great micro by any means, and I really could use another worker here. I can't quite see where I'd slot in another without losing momentum, though.

Also notice that I have found one of Jowy's cities. This means that both of the PH copper sites are unavailable, so he settled for copper elsewhere. I think he settled in between the cows and the copper, that would also explain why he doesn't have elephants yet. This is potentially a little dangerous for me. His roading worker may suggest that he was trying for the same elephant site I'm about to settle. Good thing my axe got here on time, that should put a heavy damper on his expansion plans. Looking at it again, I think there's a big risk that he'll want to settle NE of the pigs. That gets him first ring pigs (MY pigs!), lets him work already improved horses and puts both bananas and the elephants in the second ring. That's a perfectly feasible imminent plant! I may need to get out even more axes as I'll be defending two locations very very soon. The good news is that Jowy seems to have fallen behind, and for unknown reasons he's going for Horseback Riding next (after Mathematics). As long as I put plenty spears and a few axes in my cities, I doubt he'll be able to bother me much with an inferior economy. He's now a full two cities behind me, only Nakor has 5 cities out of the players I've met.

Speaking of Nakor, my axe has been out on a little adventure:

This is really too far away from home, as Punching Bag is still undefended. My axe will return back home now. I have spotted Nakor's 4th city (not 5th as shown) which is a fairly conservative plant that grabs gold and probably extra food somewhere in the black. I'm concerned that he's going to plant on the location that I've named Pink Dot. It's barely on his side of that equi-distant line, but I'd much prefer keeping that wheat to myself Even so, I can live with a city there. He's relatively far away from me and my attention has to be focused on Jowy for now.

And speaking of Jowy, I just noticed this!

So there's a good reason why poor Jowy is falling behind. Great news for me! HBR seems to be a desperate move just to defend himself, I now feel even more confident that I can apply sufficient pressure to complete my aggressive settlement plans. And if he's rolling over, I need to be in position to take a city or two for myself. More axes!

[Catwalk]

Turn 77
The game is starting to get underway, more stuff is happening each turn and plans are slowly coming to fruition. First, the Jowy border:

His city is empty and his warrior is retreating. He will be able to whip an axe there, so I have little to gain by rushing in other than stressing him out a bit. Given that he's currently being clobbered by Yuri, I don't think it's in my best interests to weaken him further. And if he holds up against Yuri, it'll be very useful to build up a level of trust that lets me have minimal units on his border. Or maybe I'm just sentimental and should instead get units ready to squeeze Jowy to death. I'm most comfortable sticking with this plan, but feel free to chip in.

Speaking of Yuri, his warrior is still annoying me:

If he moves first next turn, he can move south and be in a position to threaten my worker unless I move the warrior out of the city and suffer an unhappy face (and even then I'm risking a coin flip on it) or move the worker away and lose a worker turn. I doubt he really has any ill intentions here, but I can't gamble on his intentions. I plan on moving first with my axe next turn, as that'll let my axe get there on time. If I fail to move first, would I be justified in moving first on the following turn after seeing his warrior move south and be poised to take my worker? If so, that's two chances I have to move before him and I usually play quite early on. If I'm misunderstanding the double move rules, please clarify them for me now while we're still dealing with very little matters. I can already tell this will likely be a bit of a challenge later on, I hope the game won't be super strict on policing a narrow definition of double moving.

Two axes are off wandering here, nothing much to see:

Lots more land to the north west, I imagine there may well be someone up there somewhere as was suggested earlier in the thread. Probably further away than both Jowy and Nakor, though.

Lastly, a demonstration of what our cities are up to:

Missionary just finished and sent to our elephant city, next one will be sent to Always Wrong. I think I'll need a worker after that, which means postponing my library even further... I'm the worst PHI player ever


Very productive city, I'm happy that we ended up settling this one first with a religion in it. More axes coming out, although I should probably slot in another spear soon (I currently own 4 axes, 1 spear and 3 warriors). It's due to grow into unhappiness in 2 turns, same turn I'll found the elephant city


Groceries is getting nowhere fast, but it's a solid commerce helper while I focus on production almost everywhere else. It will be able to grow to size 5 soon, currently adding a cottage and will add a grass mine afterwards. Then it can triple whip settlers in a cost effective manner. I get ivory the same turn it grows into unhappiness.


I experimented a little with granary tricks here. I'm due to grow next turn, but I only finished the granary this turn. From what I understand, that means only 5 food will be transferred. If I delay growth this turn and turn it on next turn, I will transfer 15 instead (10 from the granary, 5 from overflow). Is that correct? If so, that seems worthwhile. A grass mine will be added soon so it can grow to size 3.

[url=http://postimage.org/]
Horses will be pastured in a few turns, then probably single whipping the granary shortly before growing to size 3. I don't have many good tiles to work here, maybe sitting on size 2 and producing another worker.

[url=http://postimage.org/]
And here's the newborn. I just switched it from the 3-food cow to the lake tile, I figure 3 commerce for 1 food is a pretty decent tradeoff. Worker will complete the road next turn, then start working on the pigs.

[Catwalk]

Turn 78

Foot Rubs got a free spread, that's the 3rd one in 35 or so turns. Not bad! I'll keep from building missionaries for most of my cities the rate this is going, at least for cities reasonably close to the holy city. Jowy is threatening the site for my new city with a chariot that he just whipped in Cray. My spearman will arrive one turn too late if I settle next turn, and I need the happiness to avoid two unhappy faces next turn. I'd be able to sacrifice my axeman by leaving it one tile ahead of my town, or I can run the risk on Jowy not wanting to attack. He's in a hot war with Yuri, so I think he's not going to be keen on getting himself another enemy on the opposite front.

How do you prefer the format of t77 compared with the old one of t76? In t77 I've put most comments inside the spoiler tags together with the pictures. Which is easier to read?

[spacetyrantxenu]

I usually prefer comments outside of spoiler tags, and not even using spoiler tags so much. I use the [screenshot] tag instead. But it's your thread, do whatever you prefer.

[Catwalk]

The reason I like spoiler tags is that it annoys the crap out of me when I try to scroll down to read a thread and I keep being pushed down because of screenshots being loaded. Is that just because my computer is old, or do others have that problem too?

[NobleHelium]

It would be due to your connection speed being slow relative to the image sizes. Spoiler tags are generally not worth the effort to open them.

[Catwalk]

Thanks for the feedback. Anyone else want to chip in?

[MaxPower]

I've been away form home last week, so I couldn't follow the game. Nice to learn about Jowy getting into an early war. That certainly explains his high MFG building, as well as his research choices (masonry, math, HBR). Remember he is still very dangerous, Horse archers+chariots+impis make for a high mobility army... and you only have ONE spear. Still I think you could plant your elephant city and still have enough time to get reinforcements in place.

In the subject of getting your early academy in play, I think the best city to spawn scientists is Punching Bag. It has only 2 tiles worth working at this stage of the game (in the renaissance era it could become a hammer powerhouse), you can chop the library and work 2 specialists sitting at size 4 for ages, while still getting a nice 7 hammers output. The two scientists will produce 7.5 beakers per turn which is above a 25% increase in your current break even science output, not too bad for 2 tiles city. I think you can devote that city to get several scientists to bulb your way to liberalism, while the rest of your cities grow and build.

[Catwalk]

Turn 79
Making another lazy report, big one coming up tomorrow after I settle elephant city and discover Mathematics.

Jowy sent his chariot chasing my axeman a bit. That's not a big problem, except it's going to delay my elephant city for a turn while waiting for the spear to arrive. Which also means I'm going to suffer 2 unhappy faces, as I was counting on Ivory being hooked up by now. I'm still one city ahead of everyone I know (Nakor, Jowy, Yuri, BaII) and about to settle another one next turn. I'm wondering if I have my happiness priorities messed up. Ivory + a handful of buddhist cities actually seems to be plenty for the foreseeable future. Getting 2-3 more from Calendar seems a bit like overkill for the time being. I've already taken Sailing in order to research Calendar afterwards, but sunk costs shouldn't influence my decisions (and I did get 5 cpt from Sailing). I have a trade connection with Yuri, although I'm not sure if that means I can also get trade routes with him. If not, I might be unable to capitalize fully on +1 trade routes.

So I have 2 paths to choose from:
1) Get Currency first, spam out cities a bit faster and maybe plant an island city soonish
2) Get Calendar first, spam out extra workers and put cottages all over the place

Max, I agree that Punching Bag could be a decent choice for that. I do think the grass mine it's about to grow into is also worth working, but you're right that it has little after that. The grass mine will also help a lot with producing the library. As for Jowy, he won't have HBR for at least another 14 turns. His economic disadvantage will be hurting him severely by that point, and I will only need to defend two border cities against him. Whatever he got himself into it's put him out of the game, and I'm guessing that he'd rather exact revenge on Yuri than me as long as I don't provoke him too much.

[MaxPower]

Turn 78

Foot Rubs got a free spread, that's the 3rd one in 35 or so turns. Not bad! I'll keep from building missionaries for most of my cities the rate this is going, at least for cities reasonably close to the holy city. Jowy is threatening the site for my new city with a chariot that he just whipped in Cray. My spearman will arrive one turn too late if I settle next turn, and I need the happiness to avoid two unhappy faces next turn. I'd be able to sacrifice my axeman by leaving it one tile ahead of my town, or I can run the risk on Jowy not wanting to attack. He's in a hot war with Yuri, so I think he's not going to be keen on getting himself another enemy on the opposite front.

How do you prefer the format of t77 compared with the old one of t76? In t77 I've put most comments inside the spoiler tags together with the pictures. Which is easier to read?

I would say better safe than sorry. Delay the city if the chariot is threatening your axe. Don't taunt Jowy with such a cheap shot. Being at war would make him hungry for easy XPs.

[Edit] I wrote this before I saw your last post.