[SPOILERS] Pindicator plays PBEM62 (not to be confused with Twitch Plays Civ)

[pindicator]

This map didn't screw over pin. What did is a separate issue of leader picking but that's a bit more of a complex issue to discuss after the game for specifics.

Pb19 well. Perhaps its best said that you don't let Joao get Henge and a holy city. But Pin...early copper but that map put copper in an awkward position that if you went AH first was hard to settle without screwing long term power.

I'm pretty sure I would have picked Catherine if I knew just how close the map was going to be here.

My biggest issue with 19 was the copper location being 2nd ring or 1st ring with a border pop or 1st ring with no border pop and food. Oh yeah, and it was in the disputed area between me and Thoth so I would have had to constantly defends it from impi raids even if I had hooked it up. Everyone else had safe copper by what I later saw.

Although it was also a good reminder why we stopped playing with barbs on in BtS games, too.

[Krill]

Never drink when I'm working the next day. In fact the only beer in this apartment is a bottle of guinness.

Just pissed off can't easily post for a week.

[Gaspar]

I honestly think a lot of the issue is we give the mapmakers too many instructions nowadays. There should be a consensus from the players on what kind of map they want to play (cramped/open/inbetween; lots of water/no water/inbetween; etc) and then from there it should be up to the mapmaker + lurkers to make something balanced. That's really my point - not that Xenu sucks or Gawdzak sucks or anybody else sucks (FWIW, I took a ton of criticism in my first mapmaking foray and it was largely deserved) but honestly that the players sucked. PB19 might have been a map with a ton of issues but 90% of them came from the design parameters. This map might be just fine given what was ordered (dunno, I haven't seen the whole thing) but I suspect there's a lot of Commodore wanted this map and the rest of the players just wanted a game going on here.

That's really the issue. So many problems come from the way games are formed (1 guy wants a specific game, rest of guys just want *a* game) and the way mapmakers happen (just happy to have anyone draw the map.) That's fine if your expectation is a random game bonanza but if you're looking for a relatively balanced game of skill its a terrible way to design them.

And apropos of nothing, but since Pindicator brought it up, I think there is zero reason for barbs to be on in an attempt at a balanced game. The other players do a just fine job of keeping us all honest with building military and it just introduces three layers of randomness that are utterly unnecessary (first who gets the barbs invading at all, secondly rng at a time when losing a unit or two is a really big deal because you don't yet have the resources to replace them on a bad roll and finally someone getting lucky with a very early HE unit.)

[The Black Sword]

I already wrote something in the lurker thread about where I'd put the second city when you asked that question. I liked your holy city play too though.

Looked back at your PB19 again, yeah, that copper location really was screwy, should have added that to the list. I think I would have gone straight BW -> archery when you ran into Thoth. Then put an archer in the front city, and keep 1 emergency whippable. Going Myst instead and waiting 10t for copper seems worse, especially when Thoth can keep it disconnected. I'm not sure it sets you back that far either since neither Myst nor Writing are critical techs at that stage. Obviously though, it's all a lot easier to say with the benefit of hindsight.

[pindicator]

Turn 039

2 new chariots arrive on the scene:



Another puzzle, but I think the answer here is to attack out. If I sit back he just pillages and destroys. So I moved my axe to the forest hill right beside the chariots (poor soul, odds aren't good he survives, but he has a good chance of taking a chariot out with him). And then I attacked the warrior on my deer with my spear. Doesn't this leave my copper and city at harm? Yes, so I whipped the spear in my capital, which will overflow into a 3rd spear at the end of next turn.



Then we need to get ready for the next wave. I think it's axes; anybody else want to bet?
I'm saving money in case I need to upgrade my last warrior.

[pindicator]

Turn 040



Spear completed in the capital at end of turn due to my whip overflow. Really need to try for a settler next.

[Gaspar]

Heh, I think my table-flip there might have been just to delete all my units.

[pindicator]

Turn 041

I wasn't too clear before. The first chariot didn't win the battle; he merely withdrew. The second chariot won, and that was enough to get Commodore a Great General. So now the wounded chariot is retreating, most likely to give us a 3-move asshole to deal with in the future



The chariot that was harassing my copper has moved 2SW to the only tile in the fog it could go. I'm hoping Commodore does something stupid with his eastern chariot.

Power graph shows he isn't building more units. Not yet

[pindicator]

Turn 042

I triple whipped out my next attempt at a settler. Overflow probably will go into a barracks; I'm going to need one.



I'm not sure what Commodore is doing with his chariots; it looks like he's just trying to scout out and see what I'm up to. Power graph doesn't show that he's building many more units, maybe one more chariot. Pity I can't get a chance to go after him. If I settle that horse location then I will try to chop & whip some Horse Archers and maybe make him react to me for once.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Unit wise you have 3 spear an axe and a war? Not bad considering! Nice to try and take the fight to him; I'm rooting for a major upset!

Did you play civ 2? They had an ability to cause civil war if you took an empire that was much bigger than yours capital. Half the empire would turn into another faction, at war and the equivalent of worst enemies - it was quite epic. If only there were a similar mechanic still in this game...