GeneralKilCavalry and thestick talk it out

[thestick]

Yeah, we've been lucky re: religion. You know, while we're running Scientists in Abukir, we could quickly pop out Meditation, build a Temple, and run a Priest. Or we could wait until we get a dedicated National Epic city running... if we get peace with SD, we could build it in Ferdinand. Two seafood resources and not much else, perfect for specialists.

Well, you know my position. I'd love to get half-decent relations with one of our neighbors (preferably SD, he's stronger and didn't settle towards us like Cairo) so we can expand without fear of 2v1. My gut says we hear him out and try to negotiate with him. Plus with HAs, and Construction around the corner, wars of conquest likely won't be productive until Knights, I think, unless we pull a dogpile somewhere.

We can still cancel the alliance with Gav by triggering the 10 turn cooldown, right? Hopefully we can still remain on cordial terms with him, since he's about to become our new northern neighbor.

What do we want out of negotiations? Ideas off the top of my head:
1. Tech trading, preferably some sort of MC + junk for Currency. SD has Currency and we desperately want it.
2. Some sort of NAP. Maybe to ~T115 while we fill out some spaces in our dotmap?
3. Some negotiated border settlement. Preferably we'd keep the area between us demilitarized, or we can put that frontline fort, or something. Just so that we can breathe easy against HA raids vs. Arcole/Marengo.

[thestick]

T92 Report

The economic stagnation continues, with Currency making the rounds, Gavagai going for Calendar, and Raskol going for Mids. We basically have to line up a good MC for Currency/Calendar trade T100, or steal the Colossus from Raskol, or else we'll economically stagnate.

   

Top to bottom: Gavagai, Raksol, superdeath, TBW, Cairo.

Maybe we could trade TBW Metal Casting (300 beakers) + 100 gold for Currency (400 beakers)? We can't trade with SD (I think) since we have an alliance with Gavagai/TBW. We have 300 beakers to trade away. It would take us 3-4 turns to scrape up the Gold, but frankly the economic situation is so desperate that those 4 turns of ~20 GPT from the free trade route make it worth it.

EDIT 2: No wait, TBW doesn't have enough beakers to trade away. Looks like we just have hold out until T100 and hope we don't fall behind too badly, I guess.

EDIT: SD is running away with this game, frankly. He has the highest GNP, Food, Production, and soldiers. But we're in no economic position for warfare, and with Catapults around the corner, neither is Gavagai.

[GeneralKilCavalry]

TBW is at his limit, so he can't trade off currency right now. Any trades have to wait till turn 100. I am very confident we're gonna grab colossus with that plan of ours.

[thestick]

Could you tell me what the current Worker orders are? It looks like Murat is building a Mine, and Beauhardis/Berthier are building a Road? Looks like Worker micro becomes important, as if we can somehow free up a Worker to chop a forest starting T94 so the forest chops T96 without delaying everything else, we can complete the Colossus T97. Otherwise, we have to work the Spices for a turn to get the Colossus T98.

[thestick]

Will double check the micro in a bit. Might need to put Lodi on Spices? Will check after dinner.

EDIT: Updated in Colossus V3. Swapped Lodi to Spices temporarily, we may need the extra hammer. We can squeak out a T97 Colossus if we can figure out how to chop the forest 3N of Lodi on T96, otherwise we can finish the Colossus on T98 by not Roading and instead chopping. It depends on what the current Worker orders are.

[GeneralKilCavalry]

In my head the worker micro added up. Basically, they are building roads so that their chops can come in turn 96. The chop from the mine will come in on turn 96 as well. The worker currently mining the tile that Lodi can readjust to is going to go chop a forest along with the worker that will finish the new iron mine down south. Let me log in and count worker turns...

[GeneralKilCavalry]

Ok, so it seems the worker mining will start the chop T96 and will be joined by the iron worker, with the chop coming in T97. I was trying to delay other chops by starting roads so that they'd come in when we start colossus. I do not think this is an issue. We can whip away some pop on the forge to get enough overflow to push us over.

[thestick]

Well, I'll be on Discord for a bit if you want to hammer it out.

EDIT: Still chatting with GKC, but bottom line, Colossus V4 should be the final version. The plan is to one-pop whip the Forge T95, then chop three forests T96 to get enough overflow to one-turn the Colossus EOT 96.

[thestick]

T92 Report Competitor Analysis

Inspired by Sullla's posts in the PB 51 lurker thread, and due to boredom, time for the competitor analysis.

Graphs/Demos:
   

   

   

   

Ranking:
1. superdeath. Self-explanatory, he's had the most food and cities for the past ~50 turns, most GNP and soldiers now, the key economic tech of Currency and the key military tech of HBR. He's running away with this game. If he can get Iron Working and start expanding into the contested jungle region before anyone else can, he'll probably end up the winner barring some sort of dogpile.

Sidenote: I don't think we should trade him Iron Working. We're the only ones who researched it, and Tech Brokering is off, so TBW (whom we traded it to) can't trade it with superdeath. We meed to keep him out of the jungles if we can.

2. Gavagai. He's been third or so in food and MFG for a while now, and with Calendar under his belt, he'll be able to get 10 or so turns of vertical growth before we can. Plus it looks like he's about to land the Parthenon and Great Library to supercharge his Philosophical?

3. Us. We've been second or third in food/MFG for the past ~50 turns. Our big problem is that we've always been behind in GNP relying on tech trades to catch up, and now we're stuck in a period of economic stagnation. No room for vertical growth, and no money, or substantial resources to claim, with horizontal growth. As you can see by the demos, we're quickly sliding down in the rankings. We need one of Currency, Calendar, and Monarchy, in order of most to least preferred, to become viable again. We're betting big on things turning around ~T100, as we build the Colossus and trade for Currency. Then, being the only civ with IW besides TBW, we can grab the contested jungle region. If that doesn't work, we'll slide into irrelevancy, or at least also-ran status.

4. Raskol. He has built literally every wonder so far in this game (Stonehenge, Oracle, Temple of Solomon, Pyramids), so he's got to have a killer GNP. I suspect that he's behind in expansion, though. Since he didn't pull the Oracle -> MC -> GE shenanigans, he hand-built the Pyramids for a cool ~300 hammers (50% Stone, 25% Forge. Pyramids don't get Industrious bonus in this mod). He just settled his eighth city, being the last to do so and a milestone we crossed ~15 turns ago or so? Plus with TBW right next door, I wouldn't be surprised if TBW thinks that he's an attractive conquest target. There's an aphorism I can't remember the source of, instead of building the Pyramids, build Swords to conquer the civ with the Pyramids, and if I were TBW, I'd be thinking very hard about that.

5. Cairo. Second in MFG, but for some reason his food hasn't grown for the past ~40 turns or so.

6. TBW. He's been near the bottom of the food/MFG rankings for a while, and we're entering the era where tech matters more than great war traits. Makes a great trading partner, though, and will hopefully keep a lid on Raskol.

[GeneralKilCavalry]

I've been mulling things over, I'll just leave SD hanging, so to speak. I got HBR from gavagai in exchange for IW this turn, so I think I'll stick with the original alliance. With the upcoming library in Abukir, we should be able to get the academy by turn 114 in Toulon (alternatively, use it for a golden age, but I doubt that is necessary unless we miraculously start coming up on bureaucracy and want to swap into that and HR). It will also provide a small, but noticeable boost to research when coupled with the upcoming turn 100 trades, and colossus. Colossus will immediately offset the losses generated from the organized religion swap, and then our two southern fishing villages will become economic machines, making 19-20 commerce each by turn 102-103 (constrained only by happiness, which I will seek to remedy). Our solid position in crop-yield and number of cities is providing us with a good foundation to build off of. If not for that, no colossus or any tech trade would be able to help us.

I am cautiously optimistic, but everything hinges on us successfully obtaining calendar and currency T100.