Get Rich or Die Tryin': HidingKneel and Mardoc tackle the Khazad (Spoilers!)

[HidingKneel]

I don't think we'll want to be pumping pure warriors from all cities 10 turns from now. Ingenious helps, but we can't afford to upgrade that many warriors every turn.

Unless you're planning to do very little until then, anyway.

Not pure warriors. But lots of warriors and thanes with a smattering of infrastructure buildings mixed in, and maybe a settler or two once we feel safe.

I believe our base commerce (not counting GA) right now is around 330, with expenses around 120. In Consumption, that's about 280 gp/turn if we're running max gold. Which is enough to upgrade 5 chariots per turn, or 14 axemen per turn, or some combination of the two. And our income ought to be going up... especially when we get ToKs and courthouses built.

Of course, we can only do that for so many turns before maintenance starts to kill us. But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it .

[HidingKneel]

Evil thought: probably not worth the effort, but Blight would be fun to watch right now. Knock the Kurios back into the same realm as the rest of us. But the only way I see to get there from here is to found AV and spread it, and it's probably not worth the effort. On the other hand...maybe it's worth pointing out to Jalapeno? The Khazak Mining Corp is of course committed to the Earthmother, but tall folk can worship as they please.

This is a great idea. Blight would really take the Kuriotates down a few pegs. We just need to convince someone to make the investment...



AC is at 22 now. Perilously close to a blight. Jalapeno could probably set it off by razing an Elohim city or two.

Also: that AV spread must have come from a dungeon pop. TBS hasn't researched Corruption of Spirit (most recently, Iron Working. Strange choice, since he's already invested in Centaur Archers. Seems to be meandering. Maybe he wants a shipyard in his Heron Throne city?)

What about us? Still not preparing for war:



Here's what I have in mind, city-by-city:

Duckburg: Big hammer city. Finishes the Mines, then a 2-turn Heroic Epic. By that time, we'll have a Stonewarden on hand to pop a ToK. We'll then push out a couple of quick Thanes for upgrading, then a Command Post, then more Thanes.

The Money Bin: We're one turn from completion of a Smithy, but I decided to build the National Epic first. Smithy first is more hammer-efficient, but not by much: we're already getting +150% from Marble and Ind, so an extra +30% only saves us 8 hammers. I'd rather have the wonder a turn earlier and start running specialists again.

Brutengrad: Finish a smithy (2 turns), then build a Command Post (3 turns), then start building units.

St. Canard: Built a warrior this turn, and I think we have enough overflow to finish a Command Post next turn. Then we start spamming units along the lines indicated earlier.

Goosetown: Finished a ToK this turn. Next two turns we build a Command Post, then we start pushing out Thanes to upgrade to Stonewardens and spread the word (first one goes to the Kuriotates, as promised; second one goes to Duckburg).

Calisota Spring: Working on a Smithy, though it's debatable whether or not it's even worth it there. When that's done, probably Command Post -> units.

Spoonerville: Production is up to 57 hpt in the GA. Put 57 hammers into an adept this turn. Next turn we finish adept #1. Turn after we finish adept #2. Turn after that we finish a Command Post. Then we build something cheap (warrior?) to maximize overflow into the ToD.

Mousetown: This is actually going to be a serious hammer city, it just hasn't started working all of its hammer tiles yet. Plan is Forge -> Command Post -> Units.

Gyro's Shack: Finished our first Siege Workshop there this turn with tons of overflow. Next comes a 2-turn Command Post, then units. Doesn't yet have a market and is the best spot for our first Courthouse, but those can wait.

Drakeborough: Has almost no hammers. Forge/Command Post are not worth building there. It's working all of its improved tiles right now, so I thought we'd use the food surplus to build a settler while our workers clear more jungle. That's actually a pretty good place to build a settler, since the next spot I want to settle is to the immediate west.

Quack: Grew to size 2 this turn. Is producing 2 hammers/turn right now. Doesn't really matter what I build there, but it has some serious hammer potential so I'm thinking Smithy first.

Quack Quack: City in the jungle. Has no hammers. Will pop borders next turn, then I'll start a market and possibly never finish it.

Techwise: we connected Pearls this turn, so we've got a little leeway on happiness and I cranked science back up to 100%. Finished Military Strategy with tons of overflow (caught a nice break: Warriorknight just finished teching MS last turn).
Not many techs left to go. HBR -> Divination -> Priesthood -> Animal Handling -> Maybe Alteration.

Demos (taken at EOT with no tech selected):



Even with the Pillar, the Kuriotates will not be able to keep up with our production. We haven't even started accruing our vault bonuses yet.

Speaking of which: Dwarven vaults: empty

[HidingKneel]

No turn yesterday, but we do have a flurry of diplo:

Warriorknight,

Knowledge is power. While you might lack in military might for the moment, you, you do possess something that could be invaluable in a coming war: trained hawks.

It will still be some turns before the Khazad Mining Corporation has hawks of its own. I've been arguing for them for some time now... but dwarves are a stubborn lot, and it's hard to convince the Board of anything unless they see some profit in it.

So let me propose the following deal. Give a hawk to your swiftest hunter, and send them southwest through our lands as soon as possible. Use the hawk to gather what information you can about Calabim troop dispositions, and pass that information on to us.

In exchange, we'll provide you with a Temple of the Earthmother in the near future (around ten turns from now), free of charge.

Also: we should have that Iron available in a couple of turns. If you're still interested, I'll propose an exchange of Iron for Spirit Mana on turn 98. We won't need that mana long: probably ten turns will suffice. The Iron loan will be indefinite, so long as our people continue to cooperate.

Sound reasonable to you?

Flintheart,

Short on time so I'll make this brief, but I accept both your deals. It may take me a couple of turns to get a hunter into position on our border, but once he gets there I'll send him straight SW. Likewise, I'll take the Iron gift for spirit loan, request whenever suits you.

Regards,
WK

Those trades benefit him a lot more than they benefit me. I doubt he'll be able to get that hawk into position by the time it'll matter... it'd be faster to just tech Animal Handling ourselves. But those deals won't cost us much (one unit which will be built far away from the action anyhow), and they might buy us a bit of goodwill.

TBS finally got back to me:

Flintheart,

Indeed, we've brokered a peace deal with vampires. We have a 5t rolling NAP with them, similar to our own. I hope that leaves us enough flexibility in the case of future vampire aggression. In addition I offered a peace treaty rather than a cease fire by mistake. I doubt either of us were going to trigger it so soon though.

I felt any more progress would result in too many casualties among my troops. Retreating and getting access to some collateral first seemed prudent. Once that's in place I could consider restarting hostilities if we had support.

Please direct your Priest to begin his ministrations in Kwythellar. Glad to see your construction sector is booming.

TBS.

My take: he really wants to build. He's got a bunch of strong units now and wants to spend his effort gathering up late-game techs/wonders, rather than building units to fight wars (even if those wars could put him in a dominant position). Which sort of makes sense for the Kuriotates, but I think is a mistake. I doubt he could pull a quick tower victory: I'd guess it'll take him at least 25 turns from when he gets started, due to the time needed to convert nodes if nothing else. Though I suppose he can actually convert nodes while he's building the relevant towers... maybe I should revise that down.

Anyway, no reason I can't try to stir up a bit of paranoia:

Jalapeno,

Haven't heard from you in a bit. Here in Duckburg, we figure that you've had a lot on your plate. Fortunately you seem to have managed to deter the Kuriotate aggression.

Tell me, what do think their plans are? We note that your people have trained hawks; do you have a sense of how much mana they've accrued? Some of our board members are worried that TBS might have his eye on those towers... though admittedly, he's still a long way from getting them built.

Flintheart Glomgold, Founder and CFO of the Royal Khazad Mining Corporation

Hello there,

I'm not quite sure which direction the Kurios are heading; they do seem to be aggressively collecting mana though. I just caught sight of a mana settlement placed directly on WK's borders, 8 tiles from the nearest kurio borders I can see. The rest of his territory I can see has another unimproved node, plus part of my peace deal was allowing a settlement which grabs another node on my border. So, 3 blank nodes on this side, plus he's improved a body node already. Any blank nodes where he borders you?

Judging from the speed with which he finished the Pillar, he could probably knock out the towers pretty darn quick. What exactly is the nature of your deals with TBS? It's distressing to see the runaway GNP leader receiving the benefits of open borders.

Jalepeno, Senior Partner of Calabim Management Consulting, LLC

It just happens that we have a very good idea of how many nodes the Kuriotates control, since they shared their maps with us. We promised not to share that sort of information with other civs, though. And I'm not sure I want to in this case, anyway: better to make Jalapeno paranoid.

Should give him something, though. A reminder that the Kuriotates probably don't benefit much from our trade routes, since they only have three cities? Maybe offer OB to Jalapeno himself? That'll benefit us a little: we've got cities with domestic trade routes still, despite having OB with everyone but Jalapeno, and we're about to found two more cities.

OTOH, I see Jalapeno as our main rival. OB will help him more than it helps us. I think it's only worth doing if it we're buying goodwill that prevents him from launching an attack. Maybe we can earn that goodwill in another way (though it's hard to put a friendly face on "I'm willing to trade with everyone except you").

This is probably where I should mention your Blight idea...

[Mardoc]

AC is at 22 now. Perilously close to a blight. Jalapeno could probably set it off by razing an Elohim city or two.

Awesome! Or, ahem, AV spreading just a bit - and it's one of the spreadier religions.

Duckburg: Big hammer city. Finishes the Mines, then a 2-turn Heroic Epic. By that time, we'll have a Stonewarden on hand to pop a ToK. We'll then push out a couple of quick Thanes for upgrading, then a Command Post, then more Thanes.

Um...Duckburg with that much more +hammers can 1-turn Stonewardens. Or chariots. Or trebs. Why build Thanes?

The Money Bin: We're one turn from completion of a Smithy, but I decided to build the National Epic first. Smithy first is more hammer-efficient, but not by much: we're already getting +150% from Marble and Ind, so an extra +30% only saves us 8 hammers. I'd rather have the wonder a turn earlier and start running specialists again.

Agree here. GPP are valuable things!

No serious question on the rest, except one: you have a lot of 'then build units' listed, but no specifics. We should pin that down: decide on a desired army comp, and work backward to what we need to build to get it.

First draft: How about 10 axes, 20+ chariots, and a handful of adepts/Hunters/Stonewardens? Plus four druids, build the thanes in advance so we can upgrade them. Skip trebs entirely, Druids ought to be in play before we can get critical mass of trebs.

I notice no Training Yards in that plan, though. Thought we'd agreed that axes are worthwhile?

Even with the Pillar, the Kuriotates will not be able to keep up with our production. We haven't even started accruing our vault bonuses yet.

True-ish. The Mercenary wonder would let him turn his 300 GNP advantage into hammers, as well...

On Diplo - Well done with WarriorKnight, I think. Bringing him into this even if he can't do much will at least get him thinking along the lines we want. And Hawk recon will give him some idea what he faces, and also maybe bring him in involuntarily .

with Foreign Trade, TBS is probably doubling at least 10 trade routes, probably worth 3-4 commerce base, so we're probably providing him a good 30-40 base commerce - before Tailors and Jewelers and Academy/God King/etc. Not shabby - probably in the 70-100 GNP range after multipliers. Wouldn't catch us up to him, but it would certainly hurt him if we were to cancel. Err...assuming no one else opened borders, anyway. I see your point about him apparently spending those beakers aimlessly, but he can afford some inefficiency with a lead like that!

As for Jalepeno, declining trade is easy: "we have no interest in building roads to the border of a Raiders civ, and we don't share any oceans". I think at the moment we still want peace, we can build faster than he can for now anyway, and that also preserves the option of stopping a Tower run if TBS starts one.

[Mardoc]

Oh, One More Thing.

Since Blight is looking likely, maybe we should find some room for some health buildings? Remember that Herbalists and Aqueducts both add health and reduce Blight unhealth; maybe Smokehouses or Granaries are more efficient, though.

I think I'd have to look at the save to have a strong opinion on whether this is worthwhile, but it's worth considering anyway.

[Mafro]

Remember that Herbalists and Aqueducts both add health and reduce Blight unhealth; maybe Smokehouses or Granaries are more efficient, though.

Lurker question - are you saying that Herbalists and Aqueducts essentially have a double impact on Blight unhealth, as opposed to Granaries and Smokehouses? Or am I misunderstanding you?

BTW, really enjoying the read and learning a lot...thanks to both you and HidingKneel for being so prolific!

[HidingKneel]

Duckburg: Big hammer city. Finishes the Mines, then a 2-turn Heroic Epic. By that time, we'll have a Stonewarden on hand to pop a ToK. We'll then push out a couple of quick Thanes for upgrading, then a Command Post, then more Thanes.

Um...Duckburg with that much more +hammers can 1-turn Stonewardens. Or chariots. Or trebs. Why build Thanes?

At that point, the GA will be over (or nearly over), and I think we'll be able to go Thane -> Thane -> ??? without losing any hammers, even with the Epic. A few extra buildings we could use there: definitely a Command Post, maybe a Granary as you mentioned. That's probably also where we should build Bambur. Granted we'll eventually want to devote all the hammers to units, at which point we can focus on more expensive ones.

First draft: How about 10 axes, 20+ chariots, and a handful of adepts/Hunters/Stonewardens? Plus four druids, build the thanes in advance so we can upgrade them. Skip trebs entirely, Druids ought to be in play before we can get critical mass of trebs.

Sounds reasonable. I might add some Paramanders just for flavor, though you make a convincing case that they're not necessary. Details TBD...

I notice no Training Yards in that plan, though. Thought we'd agreed that axes are worthwhile?

I agree they're worthwhile, but I think having warriors is more important than having Training Yards over the next few turns.
We'll have a city or two build TYs with the overflow.

True-ish. The Mercenary wonder would let him turn his 300 GNP advantage into hammers, as well...

Ooh... didn't think of that. OTOH: he's showing a GNP of 640. Let's put his expenses at 100, and let's say 50 of that is culture from his wonders. So that's 690 beakers per turn. 575 before the prereq bonus. He's probably got Libraries and Academies in all cities, so 575 beakers per turn is really 330 commerce. Subtract his expenses, and he can trade that for 230 gp/turn, which is not nearly as scary. True that he could boost that with Moneychangers and Tax Offices, by adopting Consumption, or by making an Adaptive swap to Financial. But all of those things are investments that cost him somewhere else.

with Foreign Trade, TBS is probably doubling at least 10 trade routes, probably worth 3-4 commerce base, so we're probably providing him a good 30-40 base commerce - before Tailors and Jewelers and Academy/God King/etc. Not shabby - probably in the 70-100 GNP range after multipliers. Wouldn't catch us up to him, but it would certainly hurt him if we were to cancel. Err...assuming no one else opened borders, anyway. I see your point about him apparently spending those beakers aimlessly, but he can afford some inefficiency with a lead like that!

I might be misremembering, but I think we only have a couple of TRs with TBS. Probably 6 of his trade routes are domestic.

As for Jalepeno, declining trade is easy: "we have no interest in building roads to the border of a Raiders civ, and we don't share any oceans". I think at the moment we still want peace, we can build faster than he can for now anyway, and that also preserves the option of stopping a Tower run if TBS starts one.

That line won't work; we already have a trade connection.

[Mardoc]

Lurker question - are you saying that Herbalists and Aqueducts essentially have a double impact on Blight unhealth, as opposed to Granaries and Smokehouses? Or am I misunderstanding you?

Yes, that's right. Or specifically - any building that, itself, grants +Health, both grants that health to the city and subtracts that value from the Blight penalty when it's first applied. Granaries and Smokehouses don't have double effect because they boost resource health, rather than giving health directly.

It only gives double the effect if the buildings are in place before Blight hits.

BTW, really enjoying the read and learning a lot...thanks to both you and HidingKneel for being so prolific!

Not often that I'm asked to talk *more* . I'm glad you're enjoying it.

If you haven't already, I would recommend going to the archives and reading Pocketbeetle's thread in PBEM1. Possibly also Selrahc and Bobchillingworth's threads. I try to be entertaining and informative, but I'm a far cry from Pocketbeetle.

Duckburg

Well, if you're sure the GA end will cost that much, then ok. Guess it's not hugely important as long as you look at it when the time comes.

We'll have a city or two build TYs with the overflow.

I just want to be sure we have one, in a relatively good location. The question of more than one really comes down to how many upgrades we can afford, which can be an open question.

Ooh... didn't think of that. OTOH: he's showing a GNP of 640. Let's put his expenses at 100, and let's say 50 of that is culture from his wonders. So that's 690 beakers per turn. 575 before the prereq bonus. He's probably got Libraries and Academies in all cities, so 575 beakers per turn is really 330 commerce. Subtract his expenses, and he can trade that for 230 gp/turn, which is not nearly as scary. True that he could boost that with Moneychangers and Tax Offices, by adopting Consumption, or by making an Adaptive swap to Financial. But all of those things are investments that cost him somewhere else.

Well, you're not accounting for God King, and I don't think he has made enough Sages for three Academies yet, either. But I grant it's probably more like 400 gpt available for spending than 600.

I might be misremembering, but I think we only have a couple of TRs with TBS. Probably 6 of his trade routes are domestic.

I thought that was true before he swapped into Foreign Trade. But I haven't checked, so you might be right. In which case that's worth mentioning to Jalapeno, surely?

That line won't work; we already have a trade connection.

Oh. Um...the only thing I can think of is to change the subject, talk about Blight and such.

[HidingKneel]

BTW, really enjoying the read and learning a lot...thanks to both you and HidingKneel for being so prolific!

Not sure that you want to learn how to play Civ from me, but glad you're enjoying it . I'll second Mardoc's
recommendation of the FFHI threads, and also recommend checking out Gaspar's thread for FFH VII. Following that game was what finally convinced me I needed to make my own account at RB.

Well, if you're sure the GA end will cost that much, then ok. Guess it's not hugely important as long as you look at it when the time comes.

Number of hammers in Duckburg is highly adjustable. It only has one mine that isn't shared by another city.
And I'm probably going to convert that mine to a deer Camp soon, since it looks like it'll take a while to connect the deer out west, and cities are starting to get unhealthy. Right now we're maximizing our output there. And we'll want to keep the hammer output high once the Heroic Epic is in to best take advantage of it... but I think it'll be easy to micromanage so that we're not wasting anything.

I just want to be sure we have one, in a relatively good location. The question of more than one really comes down to how many upgrades we can afford, which can be an open question.

Diplo with Jalapeno is making me less nervous, which is bringing me around to the idea that it'll be okay to ramp up a little slower. In which case... a little less upgrading, a little more of expensive units being built with hammers (and therefore vault-filling).

Also... we were one hammer short of finishing a Command Post in St. Canard this turn. Could have gotten an extra hammer by working an engineer specialist instead of a Sanitation Aristofarm, but my inner builder wouldn't let me. Which means we'll have a ton of overflow from finishing it next turn... way more than we can sink into a warrior. So... Siege Workshop? I think we should have another one of those, since Gyro's Shack is so close to the Calabim border (and because Chariots sound like the unit we want the most of).

Somehow I was under the impression that Chariots were 60 hammers. They're actually 80 (quick speed). So that's 69 gp, rather than 49, for the upgrade . Doesn't change the calculus much, I guess (if anything, it makes upgrading them an even better deal).

Anyway, I think St. Canard is a bad place for our Training Yard. Even when the GA is done, it'll be able to do more than an Axeman per turn.

Instead, how about we put a Training Yard in Mousetown? Looks like that will have 18 base hammers when the GA is done.
With +20% from a Command Post and +40% from a Smithy, that's an output of 29 hammers/turn... almost exactly what it takes to build an Axeman (should probably find a way to get ourselves that extra hammer, so that we don't keep losing hammers to rounding).

I thought that was true before he swapped into Foreign Trade. But I haven't checked, so you might be right. In which case that's worth mentioning to Jalapeno, surely?

Just checked. Looks like we have one trade route from each Kuriotate city.

Here's what I said to TBS:

Jalapeno,

There's a mana node just outside Kuriotate culture near our border, but a bit south over the water (so we can't reach it just yet). That settlement is now a haven for demon-worshippers, and is therefore likely to accrue culture at a steady rate. It's only a matter of time before the Kuriotates control the node.

We also took note of an exceptionally high Kuriotate GNP this turn: quite possibly that means they were researching Sorcery with multiple prerequisites.

On a related note, how would you feel about engineering ourselves a blight? Your people would probably weather it pretty well (we've heard you have means of efficiently "downsizing" your excess population), but it would be absolutely devastating to the Kuriotate super-cities.

As for our relationship with the Kuriotates, I wouldn't pay much mind to the open borders agreement. Their cities are so huge that they mostly only have trade routes with one another; I think TBS has only one foreign trade route per city. The role of the agreement was mainly to allow mutual passage on a few rare occasions. The Kuriotates sent an envoy through our lands to meet the Ljosalfar some turns ago.

The news about TBS wanting a mana node as part of the peace deal makes me a little more nervous, as does my theory about TBS teching Sorcery. Maybe we'll want to work with Jalapeno after all. Sounds like he might be open to it.... let's keep our options open, for the time being.

So, something annoying:



I want to put a city where that dungeon is. Last time I sent a warrior to explore it, it got eaten by a CII Griffon. That CII Griffon is now a C IV Griffon, and it's apparently still there ready to eat another warrior. Moreover, the fact that it's not yet fully healed makes me suspect it belongs to a player. Who could that be?

Not TBS. He specifically mentioned no harassing with HN animals as part of our deal, which IIRC was right before we lost our warrior. Likewise, I think we have a good enough relationship with Warriorknight that it isn't him.

Also: if the Griffon belongs to someone with HBR, they surely would have given it mobility promotions rather than combat promotions. That rules out TBS again, and also Jalapeno.

That leaves Sian and Yell0w. I think either of them is a definite possibility. Maybe Sian is more likely, since I know he's had Hunting for a long time and thus plenty of Griffon-capturing capabilities.

Anyway... that griffon could actually make real trouble. I've got a huge number of workers milling around the jungle a few tiles from there. It could park itself on a peak near Quack Quack. For that matter, it could possibly raze Quack Quack if I don't get some more defenders there. Then again, if it gets unlucky against my warrior this turn, I could take it out... got another warrior next to it, and a third warrior that can also reach with a little help from combat roads.

Then again... maybe it is just under AI control, and I'm being paranoid.

Here's an overview of what we're up to:



Didn't finish our Command Post in St. Canard, but we did finish in Gyro's Shack thanks to a well-timed chop.
So now we can start 2-turning Chariots there. (There's some infrastructure which looks appealing too: still need a Market, and a Courthouse will pay off nicely. But we're overdue for having a real military. Plus I wouldn't mind sending an Iron Chariot down to Quack Quack in the near future.)

Had enough beaker overflow to finish HBR at 10% science. Maybe we even had enough to finish with science completely off. We have enough Markets now to research techs in reverse. Normally the top of the screen says "1 turn" for techs that you'll be researching in reverse... but this time it said "160 turns". What does that mean? Was our overflow alone enough to finish HBR with 160 beakers of overflow ?

Anyway, I finished at 100% science instead. Divination next. I'm going to try to finish that next turn while getting our vaults back to "low"; otherwise we'll grow into unhappiness next turn in Gyro's Shack and St. Canard.

Oh, and we managed to raise the AC at EOT:



Here are our demos at EOT, with no tech selected (note the crazy-high Kuriotate GNP):

[Mardoc]

Diplo with Jalapeno is making me less nervous, which is bringing me around to the idea that it'll be okay to ramp up a little slower. In which case... a little less upgrading, a little more of expensive units being built with hammers (and therefore vault-filling).

I think, actually, that we may gain some efficiency by still building the expensive units via upgrade, but instead spending hammers on Courthouses (and in happy limited spots, also Markets/ToK). When 1 hammer = 1 gold, it doesn't take a huge amount of savings to make these things pay back fast. I think we have some Courthouses that would pay back in 10 turns, for instance.

Next time you go negative beakers, probably Optics is a low priority tech that can absorb them. Either that or something like Order.

So... Siege Workshop? I think we should have another one of those, since Gyro's Shack is so close to the Calabim border (and because Chariots sound like the unit we want the most of).

Seems reasonable.


The news about TBS wanting a mana node as part of the peace deal makes me a little more nervous, as does my theory about TBS teching Sorcery. Maybe we'll want to work with Jalapeno after all. Sounds like he might be open to it.... let's keep our options open, for the time being.

Then again... maybe it is just under AI control, and I'm being paranoid.

You make the occasional mistake, but paranoia isn't one of them. I'm certain it's a players'. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it was Jalapeno's, actually - but given the direction it came, it's probably Sian's. Hopefully you can kill it - if not, maybe this is a good time to get ourselves a Hunting Lodge and a Hunter?

Or even ask WK to do us a favor with the Hunter he's sending for scouting for us? Payment: one griffon .

Here are our demos at EOT, with no tech selected (note the crazy-high Kuriotate GNP)

Yeah, this is why I think we may need to go against the Kurios before the vamps. Neither war will be easy, but Kurios are literally close to victory. Of course, we have to give him 10 turns warning...