[pb40 spoiler] Götterdämmerung: Destruction Is The Masses' Entertainment

[Elkad]

No, I haven't read any other threads.

Actually, I didn't even know this game existed until I posted about subbing, so when I made the offer I avoided spoiling myself after that.

I made my co-worker drive and read this entire thread on my phone today - which of course meant looking at the screenies was almost useless.
Logging in now to look around.

As to the ending pages... I can let it go, I wasn't here.
I understand the frustration of enemies committing to Ancient wars they can't win and dragging both of you down. Hell, I've been on both sides of that often enough. But I don't get that critical of it. Misjudging your chances is part of the game. And sometimes someone piles in and your chances go up.

I assume you looked at my PB38 thread by now. I knew it was unlikely to be a winning move, but it was better than the alternatives. Piling in on Joey would have got me gains I couldn't hold vs you. Staying out of it would have let you consolidate and then attack me from a massive front, and I didn't even have an internal mobility advantage, because I didn't have horses.

I've got no illusions about my ability to win in basically any game here. Oh sure, it's a goal, but I'm realistic about my relative skills here. Among other things, I just don't invest the time in micro and sandboxing and tracking everyone else's power charts. I'm playing for fun.
That said, this is a very strong position. I'll see what I can make of it.

[Elkad]

Internal overview.
Happiness is about to be a solved problem absent excessive whipping. Sugar, Dyes, Incense aren't online yet, and forges coming soon for +3 more.
Health. Good for now. No Corn (super has a spare). No rice. We'll have Sugar and Spices to trade soon.

20% breakeven isn't good, but not solveable without CoL. Building coins/beakers of course an option.
All those trees saved for forges earlier in the thread are gone, so Forges will have to come via the whip obviously.

Roads on western border need attention. Shifting troops Antium<>Hills is too roundabout. Need to road Wine and dry hill 9 of that before treaty expires at a minimum.

Could use a missionary or 7. Schilda is the obvious early candidate just to keep up the cultural pressure on Forza (3-4 points). Then again, Stonehenge was built in -750, it doubles next turn I think? (and the monument). Taking it to +20
Edit: yes, Stonehenge doubled when I flipped the turn. Monument didn't. Maybe next turn?

No Maoi.
Portu - Might antagonize Super. Not worth a single FP (and an eventual horse?).
Nobiskrug - 8 tiles, improves our culture control vs Sofia, can build it naturally in 9t.
White Bear. Complex scheme involving whip overflow, cycling size 4-2 every 5t that I'm not going to work out now. Very Slow.
Liquid Flame, if we could take it. Nice lake.
Unknown territory w/barb city west of White Bear. No access currently.


No sentry chariot. Ugh. Not sure how to fix it shy of HBR.

Schilda could go to sz7 with 2 farms, picking up 2 hills. One of those farms and hills means guarding a worker, but the first of each isn't bad.

Short-term. MC in EOT 127. Get forges in.

[OT4E]

I didnt mean you need to justify your attack on me. I know this is a game and people just attack each other.

For me it looked like you came from the darkness and attacked me without a reason though. But again my play was broken even without your efforts. So I dont blame you for playing dedicately against me.

[Elkad]

Not really justifying, just using you as the most recent example.
I spent a very long time edgegazing your culture while avoiding contact very early in the game, so I was pretty sure I was both moving directly at your capital, and that you didn't really know where mine was or how close we were. I did think there was more land to your west than you actually had.

I just had to guess when you'd be overcommitted vs Joey and stab you out of the dark. As it turned out, you concentrated your strength vs me very quickly, giving up land to OH and Joey instead, and I got very little. But no way to really know you'd do that until I tried. I also made mistakes of my own. Still looking forward to reading your thread for 38.

[OT4E]

Monuments from SH never get +2 culture, but SH itself of course gets multiplied.

Dont forget to chop forests from 3rd circle into Pyramids.

Btw there is another thing we can do. It is to run GA before we actually build MoM. It is not optimal but I fear that otherwise we lose it because of no chops. If we increase our chances of getting MoM by running GA it can be still worth. We will go into extended GA #2 and #3 easily with many early wonders and forums, so it gives us decent chances for either getting Taj first because of tech boost or use advantage to dominate someone who cant answer to our tech and production rate.

What do you think? And how long are we from getting GP? There was a city with 4 specialsts assigned. Also during GA we must pop GP from Schilda which is low in food surplus but I dont want to get those points from SH get completely wasted. Thats why I started forum there.

Also Schwedragon or Philosphy is an option to get extra GPs out.

And btw sad that Courva didnt see but a few turns after our war with Charriu had finished we popped up Silver which is unique resource for this map as I could notice. So you never know where you lose or find this game...

[Elkad]

Monuments from SH never get +2 culture, but SH itself of course gets multiplied.

Hmm.  Wonder if the code deletes and replaces the monument every turn (as a check to see if you still have SH).

Still running 4 specialists.  ETA T133 (7t).  3 3rd ring forests is 108 shields towards pyramids, should drop ETA to about 8t.  Kick the GA off, run Rep a few turns while I push GP points, drop into PS at the end?  I'd like to be in OR for forge building, but religion isn't spread anyway.  Oh, Munsalv has religion.  OR boosts wonders right?  That looks like it shaves another turn off MoM. +8shields for the GA=31/t, and then 7 more for OR. I think another turn could be microed out, if I did micro, there is food to spare before starvation with the shorter completion time.
300ish beaker opportunity cost though.

Found super's artic island (the edge of it anyway).  Coastal all the way, so the galley is heading that way to open the trade route.  Long sail, but no extra away cost.


Shallow and RFS are at peace now.  Which frees Shallow's stack, wherever it is.  Cause for concern.

[Elkad]

There is a sign E of schilda that says "at calendar"???
A city there isn't valid. A city 1w of there is, has spices for food, could borrow Munsa's cows, and has 4 green hills. And can fight for the banana. (2nd ring vs long-established 3rd - slow)
It's flat though.

[OT4E]

Signs are definitely out of date. Remove them.

I wouldnt rely on Pyramids civics because it is really late. Think of it like hammering coins with small probability of making wow-effect.

OR is another reason to go in GA as early as possible or do you want to spend 1 turn in anarchy to make it even earlier. It boosts wonders and without other bonuses it pays off in just 4 turns of constructing something. Right now I would say wait GA.

I dont think that Shallow_thought is in position to attack us. We have advantage in power and GW, not much he can do untill knights against praets. However it can happen one day. Track powers and keep stack around is good idea though.

[Elkad]

I'd already killed a bunch of signs that didn't make sense any more. I'd missed that one somehow, and it almost made sense.

Rep from pyramids is just a bonus while hunting GP points, not a requirement, and won't be until it finishes. Until it's finished, I'm assuming I'm just building wealth at +50%.
Not even sure on the timing, may not have 5t left in the GA when pyramids finish anyway - assuming I both succeed and want PS at the end.

The failgold would actually be more useful in the short term.

MoM - 1t of anarchy and 4t of OR to make up the lost turn. And we don't have OR yet anyway. And half the empire doesn't even get the 4t recovery. And it would delay MC if we went for OR now.
It can wait for the GA. If we lose by the 1-ish turn it would save, the cash is useful too.

[Elkad]

T129 -
Charriu starts a GA and revolts to Monarchy and OR

T131 -
Shallow Thought shows a catapult in Jacques.
Found a stack of 7 HA in super's land, centrally located S of his capital. They could be at our border in 3t (at Portu), but he could improve that with some better roads on our side. Doesn't feel threatening, but our scout will hang out and watch them anyway.
New doubled culture from Stonehenge is pushing Charriu's border hard. We took one tile(4th ring for us, near that old spice city sign) near Byblos already, and 2 near Forza will likely flip in a few turns.

Internal debate still rages on what tech to take next. HBR, Construction, and Aesthetics are all high on the list, but with Charriu already through Monarchy and in a GA he's very even with me pushing for Knights. Current leaning is towards Aesthetics while I'm building forges anyway.