RBPB3 - Gandhi of the Egyptians

[Krill]

OK, Now I have time for a turn update, turn 49:

Well, a Lion atttacked my warrior in a forest last turn, and the warrior got dropped to 0.8 health. unfortunately, there was another lion to the SE of the warrior, so I had one of two choices. Head west onto a hill and hope I could heal, or more NE back to AM and move down the warrior on guard there to scout with. I chose the latter, as the injured warrior can make it back into AM in time to keep it happy once it grows to size 4.




Here we have the SE scout, now woody 1 and full health, just going to follow the forests to the SE and hopefully run into Carthage or whoever is south of me. I'm keeping to the forests now because I really need to find whoever is south of me asap, and bears could really screw with that aim.




Northern scout is heading for the Ottomans, and Ruff is sending a warrior to meet him as well. Ruffs warrior is about 6 tiles east according to India, so Ruff will be heading SW, and hopefully we meet in another couple of turns. I should also run into Ottomans on the same sort of timeframe (3-5 turns depending on elevation and culture).




And here is DM, along with the warrior heading east to Carthage and then scouting out my eastern lands. You can just see the Indian warrior to the NW, I'll have a warrior before he can reach DM.

[Krill]

And a chat with Darrell. India really are quie schizophrenic...I suppose that is what happens when you have 4 players that are used to being lead player at times. Basically Darrell wants to do IW next, and I tried to persaude him to let someone else (Rome) do that. ut the start was a relayed chat between me and Ruff, about how to get contact.

(12:32:56 PM) Darrell: Krill...Ruff is looking to meet you in game. He wants to know if your Warrior S of us has healed and if so which direction is he moving. He has a Warrior about 6-8 tiles east of you and was planning on moving him SW
(12:33:39 PM) de krill of Fronce: My warrior is currently about 8 tiles SE of the Indian Capital
(12:33:53 PM) de krill of Fronce: and is currently heading SE until he meets the Ottomans
(12:35:22 PM) Darrell: Ruff says he'll head SW and provide a more accurate reference regarding the line when he opens the game.
(12:36:23 PM) de krill of Fronce: Cool, thanks. Once we have that reference we can hopefully calculate the exact move necessary to meet
(12:43:10 PM) de krill of Fronce: OK, just a heads up for your southern worker mate,
(12:43:18 PM) de krill of Fronce: but if you want to meet Carthage with him
(12:43:37 PM) de krill of Fronce: You are going to have to do one of 2 things
(12:43:44 PM) Darrell: warrior?
(12:43:51 PM) de krill of Fronce: yeah warrior...
(12:43:56 PM) de krill of Fronce: always make that typo
(12:44:07 PM) Darrell: heh...it scared me a bit, don't want to get sniped
(12:44:10 PM) de krill of Fronce: You are either going to have to wait for 7 turns for OB
(12:44:20 PM) de krill of Fronce: or fight your way through 2 lions
(12:44:28 PM) de krill of Fronce: Because I can see at least 2 lions
(12:44:54 PM) Darrell: Im not even sure which direction carthage is, south?
(12:45:04 PM) de krill of Fronce: to my east
(12:45:09 PM) Darrell: ok
(12:45:16 PM) de krill of Fronce: and you are just hte wrong sife of Dunmanifestin
(12:45:24 PM) Darrell: yeah
(12:45:28 PM) Darrell: I moved the worng way this last turn I guess
(12:45:44 PM) de krill of Fronce: Depends, you would have run into one of the lions
(12:45:59 PM) de krill of Fronce: but you'd have been in a forest and the lion would be attacking across a river
(12:46:19 PM) Darrell: ah
(12:46:25 PM) Darrell: that would have been worthwhile to do I think
(12:46:30 PM) Darrell: oh well
(12:47:05 PM) de krill of Fronce: You could always head SW and look for France if you wanted
(12:47:14 PM) de krill of Fronce: but carthage probably make more sense
(12:47:21 PM) Darrell: yeah...are they in our block?
(12:47:30 PM) Darrell: we need a list somewhere of block members and techs they will be providing
(12:47:50 PM) de krill of Fronce: Not yet, need someone to meet them and invite them. I think Ottomans know them and have talked to them, but nothing about hte block
(12:48:03 PM) Darrell: ok
(12:48:33 PM) de krill of Fronce: I have 2 warriros out to the east so I should find Carthage within 10 turns...
(12:49:28 PM) Darrell: do you want them in the alliance?
(12:49:38 PM) de krill of Fronce: I think they would be a good group to have
(12:49:47 PM) de krill of Fronce: Pacal
(12:49:50 PM) Darrell: yeah
(12:49:53 PM) de krill of Fronce: great teching ability
(12:49:55 PM) Darrell: agreeed on that
(12:50:15 PM) Darrell: its getting to the point where we cant be too picky if we want to get to 8-9 teams before the oracle comes in
(12:50:19 PM) Darrell: we've got what, 13 turns?
(12:50:42 PM) de krill of Fronce: 14 turns inc this one
(12:51:21 PM) Darrell: I stil want to go wheel next, but I guess waiting a few extra turns isnt going to kill us.
(12:51:32 PM) Darrell: I assume someone will front us the wheel and pottery while waiting for IW to come in?
(12:51:51 PM) de krill of Fronce: Hmmm
(12:52:21 PM) de krill of Fronce: You sure of IW?
(12:53:05 PM) Darrell: yeah...that's what we signed up for at the sumit
(12:53:46 PM) de krill of Fronce: It's just that you would have difficulty getting Rome into the alliance if you said they can't tech IW
(12:54:09 PM) Darrell: well, we'd be teching it for them
(12:54:21 PM) de krill of Fronce: It's an issue of trust.
(12:54:24 PM) Darrell: I thought HRE was vetoing rome?
(12:54:32 PM) de krill of Fronce: Nah, HRE are vetoing France
(12:54:40 PM) Darrell: Isn't rome the SsS guys? I know nothing about them, just what came up at the summit.
(12:54:46 PM) Darrell: ah, okay.
(12:55:16 PM) de krill of Fronce: basically you seem to want Exploit dead, HRe want France dead, and I'm happy with both of those things provided I don;t have any more enemies on my borders for a bit
(12:55:32 PM) de krill of Fronce: Because France is on my border as well
(12:55:52 PM) de krill of Fronce: Rome and Exploit have already met, so getting Rome kinda helps killing Exploit
(12:56:18 PM) Darrell: I guess we don't care about Rome one way or another.
(12:56:24 PM) Darrell: At this point at least
(12:56:36 PM) Darrell: I don't get why they wouldn't want to trade for IW as long as the dates line up tho
(12:56:47 PM) Darrell: are you saying they wouldn't trust us to give it to them?
(12:57:02 PM) de krill of Fronce: NOt necessarilly
(12:57:34 PM) de krill of Fronce: just that Rome has one advantage over everyone else in Preats
(12:57:55 PM) Darrell: right, but if they are joining this alliance and IW is part of the trade pact, they have to know everyone else is getting it.
(12:57:59 PM) de krill of Fronce: and they should know that if you decided to not give them the tech, for whatever reason, they probably aren't going to have that advantage
(12:58:03 PM) Darrell: it does not cost their advantage
(12:58:10 PM) Darrell: right, ic.
(12:58:13 PM) Darrell: who is rome?
(12:58:17 PM) de krill of Fronce: Which is why it is basically a trust issue
(12:58:30 PM) de krill of Fronce: Rome is Kublia, Sandover and Scooter are the players
(12:58:43 PM) Darrell: Sandover + scooter + Square Leg - Kublai Khan of Rome

(12:58:47 PM) Darrell: from the email page
(12:58:52 PM) Darrell: wow...aggressive creative rome
(12:58:58 PM) Darrell: exploit settled towards us for a reason I guess
(12:59:17 PM) Darrell: Im 95% certain that HRE didnt like those dudes
(12:59:46 PM) de krill of Fronce: which dudes?
(12:59:54 PM) de krill of Fronce: oh, and where did he settle?
(1:00:31 PM) Darrell: 5-6 tiles W and 1-2 tiles S of our Stone
(1:00:34 PM) de krill of Fronce: I'm mainly interested because it could be that a chariot rush makes sense in which case stabby stabby
(1:00:36 PM) Darrell: Exploit
(1:00:47 PM) de krill of Fronce: I don't think anyone likes Exploit
(1:01:09 PM) Darrell: Well, I want to go wheel next if we cant guarantee someone will trade us the wheel/pottery, and IW if we can.
(1:01:29 PM) Darrell: the wheel lets us build chariots, and he is on warriors
(1:01:34 PM) Darrell: this turn
(1:02:42 PM) de krill of Fronce: Well, I take it you can see his new city from your seciond city?
(1:03:07 PM) Darrell: mmm...probably, but we have a Warrior in the area as well
(1:03:12 PM) Darrell: garrison for our thrid city
(1:03:21 PM) de krill of Fronce: How long for the wheel? 7 turns?
(1:03:33 PM) Darrell: Im guessing 9.
(1:03:41 PM) Darrell: We are running cash this turn and next while we debate.
(1:04:02 PM) Darrell: we'll have 3 very whippable cities up and going
(1:04:07 PM) de krill of Fronce: Dude, go for hte wheel, slave out 2 chariots and chop a third from HH and go kill his second city
(1:04:16 PM) de krill of Fronce: then choke his capital
(1:04:22 PM) Darrell: no archers
(1:04:33 PM) Darrell: We could choke with chariots tho
(1:05:36 PM) de krill of Fronce: just take him down now, it is much easier than when you have to build up a stack
(1:05:47 PM) de krill of Fronce: shouldn;t even cost you much as Exp/India
(1:06:28 PM) Darrell: yeah...it has its attractions. I'll talk it over amongts my team and see what they think
(1:07:22 PM) de krill of Fronce: Cool. FWIW, I think you researching IWis a bit of a waste if we want Rome in, because they can tech what is a dead end tech, and they won;t focus on GNP if they know they are getting IW for free. That way you can tech something useful in a decent time frame
(1:07:34 PM) de krill of Fronce: ie maths or Monarchy or whatever
(1:07:39 PM) Darrell: has anyone contacted them yet?
(1:07:45 PM) de krill of Fronce: Rome?
(1:07:47 PM) Darrell: yeah
(1:07:52 PM) de krill of Fronce: portugal has contact
(1:08:04 PM) Darrell: can you ask portugal to see if they want in?
(1:08:10 PM) de krill of Fronce: I gave portugal an email to send to Rome, so that Rome could get quick contact with you guys
(1:08:13 PM) Darrell: if they want in, then we can go somewhere else after the wheel
(1:08:16 PM) de krill of Fronce: and sentthe same email to you as well
(1:08:21 PM) Darrell: o
(1:08:22 PM) Darrell: ok
(1:08:25 PM) Darrell: sunrise didn't mention it
(1:08:39 PM) de krill of Fronce: You probably need to set up autoforward on your dj account mate
(1:09:01 PM) Darrell: yeah
(1:09:03 PM) de krill of Fronce: so everyone can easily read the emails without having to remember to log in to the special addies

[Krill]

So now I am at a crossroads. I've been waiting for teams to pick up on masonry, and Portugal did it a few days ago, and ehre is India asking to tech that instead. Now, here is the problem: Can I make sure that I am the first to Monotheism? Simple way of doing it is not handing out Polytheism for a turn or two, but some players might get a little miffed at that idea...especially as I wouldn't tell anyone about it. The harder way would be to get the player researching Masonry to not trade it out, but I daren't say that to India, they may feel that researching Monotheismfor their own shrine is what they want to do, and I'm damn well not letting them do that. Considering I have Alphabet, I ultimately can screw them over, although I really don't want to do that, but I'll do it if it keeps my aim of 5 shrines alive.

(5:41:59 PM) Darrell: Krill, you there?
(5:42:02 PM) de krill of Fronce: Yes
(5:42:03 PM) Darrell: two questions for you...
(5:42:06 PM) de krill of Fronce: perfect timing as well
(5:42:08 PM) de krill of Fronce: shot
(5:42:08 PM) Darrell: WTH is going on in PBEM2?
(5:42:18 PM) de krill of Fronce: Yaz is away IIRC
(5:42:22 PM) de krill of Fronce: at the winter olympics
(5:42:40 PM) Darrell: And second, if we tech archery are we guaranteed to get someone to give us the wheel->pottery until we can get math or whatever we do nexst?
(5:43:03 PM) Darrell: rego with you too I hear
(5:44:05 PM) de krill of Fronce: you're guaranteed to get wheel and pottery as far as I can tell
(5:44:13 PM) de krill of Fronce: Ottomans are researching it
(5:44:21 PM) de krill of Fronce: but they aren't going to be the only team with Wheel
(5:44:22 PM) Darrell: okay, and they are on board and everything
(5:44:26 PM) Darrell: can you broker it over to us?
(5:44:27 PM) de krill of Fronce: I'll give you wheel at hte very least
(5:44:31 PM) Darrell: cause we have not met them in game
(5:44:37 PM) de krill of Fronce: I've not met them either
(5:44:54 PM) de krill of Fronce: rego just asked who the ottomans had met so obviously you know about that stuff
(5:44:55 PM) Darrell: you have the wheel for WC...forgot about that
(5:45:12 PM) Darrell: We are bilateral rigth now, and should be trilateral probably
(5:45:35 PM) Darrell: Okay, so rome can do IW, we will do Archery then Mathematics
(5:45:48 PM) de krill of Fronce: Well if any massive arguments appear and you need a moderator, I was considering branching out in that direction...
(5:46:05 PM) Darrell: heh-heh...sounds like something you have experience with
(5:46:25 PM) de krill of Fronce: What, the massive arguments? Only because other people don;t accept when they are wrong
(5:46:46 PM) Darrell: that's generally true, makes online life interesting
(5:47:22 PM) de krill of Fronce: ok, so the list is as follows:
(5:47:28 PM) de krill of Fronce: Porugal: Sailing
(5:47:34 PM) de krill of Fronce: India: Archery
(5:47:39 PM) de krill of Fronce: Ottomans: Pottery
(5:47:45 PM) de krill of Fronce: Rome: IW
(5:47:49 PM) de krill of Fronce: HRE: HBR
(5:47:54 PM) de krill of Fronce: Eygpt: Alphabet
(5:48:00 PM) Darrell: You can put us done for Maths as well I guess
(5:48:29 PM) de krill of Fronce: I think the techs afterwards should all depends on beaker rates, and how long each team can run at a deficit
(5:48:34 PM) Darrell: okay
(5:48:48 PM) Darrell: well for us it lines up ince, we run cash while waiting for you to send us writing, then slam hard on maths
(5:48:50 PM) de krill of Fronce: Maths is an important tech because it speeds up Currency (which is 720 beakers) and opens up Calendar/Construction
(5:48:54 PM) Darrell: we can crush it out pretty fast.
(5:49:03 PM) de krill of Fronce: Cool. How fast would you say?
(5:49:05 PM) de krill of Fronce: 15 turns?
(5:49:45 PM) Darrell: Hmm...it depends I guess on how fast we get our cottages up and running. I think 15t is aggressive but possible.
(5:50:05 PM) Darrell: Id have to sim it out better. It costs the same as IW, right?
(5:50:14 PM) de krill of Fronce: more
(5:50:17 PM) de krill of Fronce: IW 360
(5:50:19 PM) de krill of Fronce: Maths 450
(5:50:43 PM) Darrell: hmm...probably more like 20 turns then, but again need to sim out with real map and cottages. It coudl go much faster as we grow vertical.
(5:51:17 PM) Darrell: are you really pulling 18 commerce/turn?
(5:52:47 PM) de krill of Fronce: that little?
(5:52:54 PM) de krill of Fronce: making 23 base beakers
(5:53:22 PM) Darrell: hmm...with two cities and no pottery you must have a commerce tile that doens't require jungle clearance
(5:53:36 PM) de krill of Fronce: Dude, I already gave you screenshtos of my land
(5:53:44 PM) de krill of Fronce: it's a plains gold tile
(5:53:50 PM) Darrell: I know, but resources were off
(5:53:52 PM) Darrell: ah...
(5:54:06 PM) de krill of Fronce: Yeah, only reason I ever considered this option
(5:54:30 PM) Darrell: its a nice tile to start with, espeically if you have corn or pig to balance out the food issue
(5:54:46 PM) de krill of Fronce: blah, I only have 4 food tiles
(5:54:55 PM) de krill of Fronce: Sullla did his normal trick
(5:55:07 PM) Darrell: 4 food tiles in 2 cities isn't that bad, we only have 3
(5:55:11 PM) Darrell: and our metal has jungle on it
(5:55:29 PM) de krill of Fronce: you're silver, at your capital?
(5:55:33 PM) Darrell: yes
(5:55:35 PM) Darrell: under jungle
(5:55:38 PM) de krill of Fronce: OK, everyone got an idenitcal start as far as I can tell
(5:55:43 PM) de krill of Fronce: jungle silver
(5:55:47 PM) de krill of Fronce: 5 food grain
(5:55:52 PM) de krill of Fronce: plains river sheep
(5:55:53 PM) Darrell: so gold is at your second city?
(5:56:05 PM) de krill of Fronce: but then you got 6 food tiles around your capital
(5:56:11 PM) de krill of Fronce: yeah, gold is at second city
(5:56:25 PM) Darrell: ah...grassland river is a food tile to you?
(5:56:30 PM) de krill of Fronce: Basically that gold is the counter balance to worse food tiles
(5:56:51 PM) de krill of Fronce: hmm? The food tile in my second city is a grass hills sheep
(5:57:03 PM) de krill of Fronce: I also have an unirrigated wheat that I'm egtting up
(5:57:10 PM) Darrell: plains?
(5:57:17 PM) de krill of Fronce: yeah, plains
(5:57:32 PM) Darrell: plains grains need rains
(5:57:36 PM) Darrell: or irrigation of some kind
(5:58:14 PM) Darrell: i gotta run back to work, talk to you later
(5:58:30 PM) de krill of Fronce: cya later mate
(6:23:00 PM) Darrell: Krill
(6:23:09 PM) de krill of Fronce: yes?
(6:23:41 PM) Darrell: It turns out ruff is half done with archery...he has asked us to do masonry instead. i know you had reservations about him in the past, but can we add him as the archery person, and us as the masonry person (and later math I guess)?
(6:24:07 PM) de krill of Fronce: Hmmm, ok
(6:24:39 PM) de krill of Fronce: just make sure Ruff meets HRE asap
(6:24:47 PM) de krill of Fronce: and me.
(6:24:56 PM) Darrell: Ruff says thanks.
(6:25:06 PM) de krill of Fronce: he needs to do this:
(6:25:17 PM) de krill of Fronce: get a unit south asap, and get a unit west asap
(6:25:19 PM) Darrell: He says HRE this turn. I think he meets you in about 5 turns.
(6:25:28 PM) de krill of Fronce: ok
(6:25:35 PM) de krill of Fronce: He needs to get as far west as portugal
(6:25:51 PM) Darrell: I will let him know
(6:26:14 PM) de krill of Fronce: Rome have a warrior heading towards you so he can meet Rome that way, but Portugal I'm not sure about. I think they have a unit heading east, if so we can try to get those towo to meet as well
(6:26:31 PM) Darrell: he is trying to figure out how to meet portugal.
(6:26:44 PM) Darrell: Where is your warrior that he is heading towards?
(6:26:51 PM) Darrell: directly south of LN and heading SE, right?
(6:27:00 PM) de krill of Fronce: nah
(6:27:09 PM) de krill of Fronce: 8 tiles SE of LN and heading straight SE
(6:27:17 PM) Darrell: you know, there is an entire plane of civs to our north that we have no idea about. we've got all the rows figured out but that one.
(6:27:39 PM) de krill of Fronce: yeah
(6:27:44 PM) de krill of Fronce: I have 2 units heading that way now
(6:27:49 PM) de krill of Fronce: well 1, technically
(6:28:02 PM) de krill of Fronce: got to recall one and replace him with a health unit after a lion almost killed him
(6:30:59 PM) Darrell: We want two more teams in the alliance, right?
(6:31:06 PM) Darrell: we've got 7 so far
(6:31:19 PM) de krill of Fronce: We both want the team south of me and north of you
(6:31:33 PM) Darrell: yes, I was just going to say that.
(6:31:46 PM) Darrell: do you have anyone going that way?
(6:31:53 PM) Darrell: We have a unit up ther busting fog but not scouting
(6:32:15 PM) de krill of Fronce: Egypt/HRE/India/Carthage/Ottomans/Aztecs/Portugal/Rome/unknown civ/ would be 9
(6:32:45 PM) Darrell: Is Carthage in?
(6:32:51 PM) Darrell: They aren't on your list that I coudl see
(6:33:01 PM) de krill of Fronce: only known via ottoamsn
(6:33:13 PM) de krill of Fronce: me and HRE are searching them right now
(6:33:28 PM) de krill of Fronce: they are east of me and SW of HRE, S of Ottomans
(6:33:30 PM) Darrell: okay, but that is a great civ to add I agree...just need to find the mystery civ betweenus

[Krill]

Anybody got any questions? I suppose I could post the MM, but it is basically 2 lines worth of typing. Rather bland and simple, truth be told.

oh, and England have a third city. Combined with Carthages, and that they are both in my row...ouch...need to be careful here...

[novice]

Have Portugal succeeded in including Rome in the Alliance? What about Carthage, are they in? And who have you actually met so far?

[Krill]

So far Portugal and Rome have moved away from teh brink of war (the warrior incident), but I haven't heard a confirmation that Rome are in the Alliance as of yet; I think that is waiting until Rome and India meet. I will try to find out more about this though...been meaning to talk to Portugal, just been busy past 2 days, and at the rate this game is moving need to keep in contact quite alot.

Carthage, same deal, both me and HRE are searching them out and trying to gain contact before we get them in. I think I should get contact with them within 10 turns.

Me and HRE want both of those in the alliance, as it firms up our borders. I want Rome in because I don't want a Rome/Portuguese war, and If exploit gets taken out that gives India alot of space and makes them a larger target than myself.

So far I have met India, Portugal, and HRE. I have contact through India with Aztecs and Sumeria (if I ever watned to speak with Exploit), with Rome via Portugal, and with Ottoamsn and England via HRE. I'll draw up a new image to explain how the links are working so far.

[Krill]

Careful with this picture, it might screw with your head.
e

[Krill]

Chat with Portugal. I feel vindicated in saying an alliance this large really isn;t feasible to hold together. Starting to wonder if it was ever worth while, and then I realise I'm certain of getting all the techs, so it should be interesting to see whatever happens.

(9:35:05 PM) Willem Oranje: hey you free to talk?
(9:36:01 PM) Krill: sure
(9:37:06 PM) Willem Oranje: had a bit of a long chat with SsS
(9:37:08 PM) Willem Oranje: rome
(9:37:21 PM) Willem Oranje: trying to get them onboard without giving too much away
(9:37:39 PM) Willem Oranje: they cooe across as a team that doesn't really want to commit to anything
(9:38:10 PM) Willem Oranje: I guess I'd like to know what the intended max size is of this alliance, whether it's supposed to last until the endgame, whether wars will be a joint business within the alliance and preferably also which civs are already in it
(9:38:29 PM) Krill: The intended max size is 10 teams.
(9:38:32 PM) Willem Oranje: that was what rome wanted to know
(9:38:36 PM) Krill: it won;t last until the end game
(9:39:25 PM) Krill: and wars, well, that's up the the members. I'm pretty sure that wars between the member states would be frowned upon, but outside the alliance sure, set up your own military alliance within it to take out outsiders all you want
(9:39:33 PM) Willem Oranje: sorry, just in case it wasn't clear, but this was copied from my chat with rome, I asked them what they wanted to know before they felt they could give a deffinite answer
(9:40:00 PM) Willem Oranje: and I wasn't sure how much I could tell them
(9:40:12 PM) Krill: I'm just giving you my view on how I'd answer that. I might be the originator of hte alliance, but I'm not pulling everyone strings here
(9:40:26 PM) Krill: Is that roman warrior heading east
(9:40:27 PM) Krill: ?
(9:40:46 PM) Willem Oranje: yes I think so
(9:40:56 PM) Willem Oranje: gave india and rome screenshots of their respective scout locations
(9:41:07 PM) Willem Oranje: but india moved away, they'll find each other soon enough anyway
(9:41:45 PM) Krill: hmmm
(9:41:46 PM) Krill: ok
(9:42:07 PM) Krill: Just checking, but you haven't mentionned the Oracle, right?
(9:42:13 PM) Willem Oranje: no
(9:42:14 PM) Krill: ok
(9:42:38 PM) Willem Oranje: not what teams there are, but i'm sure they can guess
(9:42:56 PM) Willem Oranje: is anyone researching masonry?
(9:43:17 PM) Willem Oranje: or has masonry already? we'd love to get a religion and org religion
(9:43:35 PM) Krill: Aztecs are half way through archery
(9:43:41 PM) Krill: India are going for Masonry
(9:44:01 PM) Willem Oranje: ok cool
(9:44:26 PM) Willem Oranje: well that's everything I wanted to know
(9:45:10 PM) Willem Oranje: I'll speak to later then, unless there was someone you wanted to ask?
(9:45:46 PM) Krill: nothing much tbh, I wanted to talk about Rome, but we've already addressed that
(9:46:22 PM) Willem Oranje: ok,they also said they were sceptical of really large alliances
(9:46:44 PM) Willem Oranje: not sure how they defined really large
(9:47:03 PM) Willem Oranje: but I could say we didn't have plans for most of their neighbours to be in it, giving them free reign to expand
(9:47:30 PM) Krill: You could say that
(9:49:00 PM) Krill: just tell them if they research IW, and are willing to trade it around, they are capable of getting any tech they want. All they need to do is to follow directins with their eastern warrior to facilitate contact as fast as possible. I wouldn;t say anything else until I meet them, because they can;t get alphabet unless they meet me.
(9:49:29 PM) Willem Oranje: ok
(9:50:10 PM) Willem Oranje: i'll have to look at their power again but I'm pretty sure they don't have IW
(9:50:20 PM) Willem Oranje: and probably won't by t62 it seems
(9:50:56 PM) Willem Oranje: i think they just finished another tech
(9:51:22 PM) Willem Oranje: ok anyway, I'll speak to you later
(9:52:07 PM) Krill: cya later mate

[Krill]

picture from ottomans via HRE. Set up a meeting between India and Ottomans in 3 turns.

[Krill]

One long chat with HRE. They brought up masonry, so I'm kinda vetoing the idea of them going for Mono without saying it, but problem is they might still beat me to it...Mono would take me 6 turns, and the ability to build research kind helps if it turns out I'm just a little short.

We also set up a meeting between Otto and India, and I found out that Mali, England and Babylon have a little triumviate going on via HRE. I don't think we'll get England, because I'm not giving them Alphabet unless they agree to a couple of demands (mainly religion and agreeing to a military alliance against France). It should be interesting to see if I can get that Triumvirate to agree to spread Hinduism amongst themselves and one other neighbour designated by both them and me prior to the delivery of Alphabet...

HBR is up in the air it seems...which, well, doesn't really bother me, I'm pretty sure I can get someone to tech that. Preferably not Carthage though...maybe Aztecs...maybe the team south of me? Who knows...

Ilios: Evening
(9:28:16 PM) Krill: Evening mate
(9:29:11 PM) Ilios: how goes it?
(9:29:16 PM) Krill: Fine really
(9:29:19 PM) Krill: Oracle has been started
(9:29:25 PM) Ilios: good
(9:29:35 PM) Krill: another lion dispatched to hte great bonfire in the camp
(9:29:53 PM) Ilios: met up with Krill yet?
(9:29:57 PM) Ilios: erm
(9:30:00 PM) Ilios: Ruff :
(9:30:02 PM) Ilios:
(9:30:07 PM) Krill: ha, not just yet.
(9:30:18 PM) Krill: about half a dozen turns as far as I can tell
(9:30:18 PM) Ilios: well it's confirmed
(9:30:30 PM) Ilios: 64 tiles wide
(9:30:56 PM) Ilios: Ruff had a warrior 30 tiles west of india
(9:30:59 PM) Krill: TBG it is
(9:31:06 PM) Ilios: and we had one about 30 tiles east
(9:31:27 PM) Krill: btw
(9:31:35 PM) Krill: I just drew a picture of contacts on the map
(9:31:44 PM) Krill: thanks for making it invalid less than 2 minutes after posting
(9:32:23 PM) Ilios: frickin' wireless...
(9:32:26 PM) Ilios: anyway
(9:32:35 PM) Ilios: we should meet real soon
(9:32:57 PM) Ilios: England has confirmed they've met Babylon and Mali
(9:33:32 PM) Krill: oh wow
(9:33:41 PM) Ilios: they're in a sort of loose tech alliance, but nothing formal
(9:33:43 PM) Krill: thank you for obseleting hte second version as well
(9:33:53 PM) Krill: that is interesting...
(9:34:00 PM) Ilios: version?
(9:34:19 PM) Krill: oh, I have a rough world map of the civ positions for the lurkers
(9:34:24 PM) Krill: and lines indicating contact
(9:34:32 PM) Ilios: ah
(9:34:38 PM) Krill: now I'm just missing Inca
(9:34:46 PM) Krill: Maya
(9:34:49 PM) Krill: and Byz
(9:34:57 PM) Krill: so 2 out of three are probably my neighbours
(9:35:45 PM) Krill: do you know where Mali and Babylon are though?
(9:35:55 PM) Krill: do you know where Mali and Babylon are though?
(9:40:59 PM) Ilios: sorry had to change pc
(9:41:12 PM) Krill: np
(9:41:25 PM) Ilios: where were we?
(9:41:36 PM) Krill: (9:34:19 PM) Krill: oh, I have a rough world map of the civ positions for the lurkers
(9:34:24 PM) Krill: and lines indicating contact
(9:34:32 PM) Ilios: ah
(9:34:38 PM) Krill: now I'm just missing Inca
(9:34:46 PM) Krill: Maya
(9:34:49 PM) Krill: and Byz
(9:34:57 PM) Krill: so 2 out of three are probably my neighbours
(9:35:45 PM) Krill: do you know where Mali and Babylon are though?
(9:41:42 PM) Ilios: hehe
(9:41:43 PM) Ilios: ok
(9:42:22 PM) Ilios: i don't know where they are, but I'm guessing they're both south of England
(9:42:42 PM) Ilios: and prob north of india
(9:43:32 PM) Ilios: england has just founded their third city btw
(9:43:46 PM) Ilios: and france has finally founed their second
(9:44:31 PM) Krill: Somewhat interesting
(9:44:51 PM) Krill: You got an ETA on HBR yet?
(9:45:11 PM) Ilios: that's what I wanted to talk about
(9:45:58 PM) Ilios: England has already expressed its intention to head for it, and I'm guessing Carthage will want to have as well (UU)
(9:46:14 PM) Ilios: so I wanted to discuss a possible change in the plan
(9:46:33 PM) Krill: Are England heading for it right now?
(9:46:53 PM) Ilios: not yet
(9:47:25 PM) Ilios: and with a third city out, I'm guessing they'll be hurting economy wise
(9:47:37 PM) Ilios: i should check C&D though
(9:48:55 PM) Ilios: anyway, with another creative neighbour, we're kind of looking for ways to increase our culture buildup
(9:49:32 PM) Ilios: which is why i want to see if we coulld head to Monarchy thru Mono
(9:50:03 PM) Krill: 2 issues, from what I can see:
(9:50:12 PM) Ilios: ok
(9:50:35 PM) Krill: Want HBR quickly to strike france with fast mover stacks from several angles. You are the fastest techer who coudl research that.
(9:51:08 PM) Ilios: ok
(9:51:44 PM) Krill: 2: whoever researches monarchy needs to be ready to go the moment that they get priesthood, HR is a critical tech to grow cities. Dillydallying with other techs is pretty much a no go for most people. Just look at PB2 for an example of the importance of HR.
(9:52:19 PM) Ilios: we'll have TW in 2-3 turns, masonry in less than 5
(9:52:39 PM) Ilios: then max gold until you land oracle
(9:52:43 PM) Krill: India are already teching masonry
(9:52:58 PM) Ilios: but not at our speed
(9:53:14 PM) Krill: you need polytheism to go for Mono
(9:53:28 PM) Ilios: which is were you'd come in
(9:54:10 PM) Ilios: just throwing around ideas here
(9:54:32 PM) Krill: Means no one can research Mono until alphabet is in, which gives 13 turns to research india get Masonry before that time, gives you more time to save gold
(9:55:19 PM) Ilios: you lost me there
(9:55:39 PM) Krill: you need poly, ergo you can't research it until I give you polytheism
(9:55:46 PM) Krill: ergo need to wait 13 turns
(9:55:48 PM) Ilios: is india planning on self researching poly?
(9:55:52 PM) Ilios: indeed
(9:56:03 PM) Krill: nah, India is just going for masonry then saving gold
(9:56:13 PM) Krill: they want to do maths afterwards, but that isn;t probably going to work.
(9:56:20 PM) Ilios: no
(9:56:29 PM) Ilios: Ottomans must get Maths
(9:56:40 PM) Ilios: i think that's a dealbreaker
(9:56:46 PM) Ilios: for them i mean
(9:57:05 PM) Krill: provided they tech fast enough, I don;t really care either way
(9:57:13 PM) Ilios: they're already researching writing
(9:57:18 PM) Krill: they have pottery which gives them an advantage
(9:57:24 PM) Krill: erm, wtf?
(9:57:24 PM) Ilios: yup
(9:57:30 PM) Ilios: ?
(9:57:43 PM) Krill: how far are they from Writing?
(9:58:04 PM) Ilios: i'd need to check C&D, why?
(9:58:11 PM) Krill: tell them to stop
(9:58:18 PM) Krill: I'll gift them writing in 13 turns
(9:58:23 PM) Krill: or 14, whatever
(9:58:29 PM) Krill: tell them to save gold
(9:58:37 PM) Krill: they can research it at 100% afterwards
(9:58:43 PM) Krill: more efficient that way
(9:58:54 PM) Ilios: well you told me that they could research wrting and head to maths
(9:59:07 PM) Ilios: but I'll ask them to stop if you want
(9:59:09 PM) Krill: erm, when? Trying to jog my memory now
(10:00:07 PM) Krill: If they finish maths in the next 3 turns, then fine, but if they are 10 turns away, no point in them researching it
(10:00:19 PM) Krill: it's a awatse of about 180 gold
(10:00:24 PM) Ilios: ok
(10:00:46 PM) Ilios: good i'll send them a message
(10:01:05 PM) Krill: If you want a calculation to give them, say this
(10:01:11 PM) Krill: Maths is 450 adjusted beakers
(10:01:33 PM) Krill: which means it is 375 base beakers
(10:01:39 PM) Ilios: yup
(10:02:18 PM) Krill: if they are only making 25 base beakers at 100% and at -7 gpt because they have 3 cities, they need to have 135 gold saved to research maths in 15 turns
(10:02:34 PM) Krill: so how long would it take them to save, say 150 gold to be on the safe side?
(10:02:52 PM) Krill: it would take them about 9-12 turns
(10:03:06 PM) Ilios: would be perfect
(10:03:16 PM) Krill: if they want to keep on expanding, they should stop researching write now, and they'll get maths in a good time frame
(10:03:23 PM) Ilios: man we have to really speed up meeting each other
(10:03:24 PM) Krill: *writing right now
(10:03:41 PM) Krill: I have a warrior about 5 turns max from meeting both Aztecs and Ottomans
(10:03:54 PM) Ilios: anyway, Ottomans is sending a chariot to meet up with you
(10:03:54 PM) Krill: and a warrior exploring for Carthage.
(10:04:06 PM) Krill: tell them to send it to their NE
(10:04:10 PM) Krill: Nw sorry
(10:04:29 PM) Krill: Meeting India/Portugal is more important
(10:04:32 PM) Krill: for them
(10:04:51 PM) Ilios: i already have india
(10:04:58 PM) Ilios: asking for a meet
(10:05:25 PM) Ilios: i had initially asked them to move north after meeting up with you
(10:05:43 PM) Ilios: but i'll tell them to head straight for ex-korea
(10:06:00 PM) Ilios: where's portugals unit?
(10:06:23 PM) Krill: I don;t know
(10:06:38 PM) Ilios: ok ask them to send a warrior to korea
(10:06:52 PM) Krill: but to find Portugal themselves, they are only 16-20 tiles away to the west, so not far for a chariot to reach them
(10:06:56 PM) Krill: Korea
(10:06:57 PM) Krill: ?
(10:07:08 PM) Krill: Goingto be hard for anyone to find them
(10:07:09 PM) Ilios: the ruins
(10:07:15 PM) Ilios: haha
(10:07:38 PM) Ilios: btw did you snatch their worker in the end?
(10:07:51 PM) Krill: Basically straight west, but Rome have a warrior heading towards India and then to the south, If Ottomans head towards india, they can meet rome as well
(10:07:55 PM) Krill: no
(10:08:05 PM) Krill: it moved away, that was why I asked forh te reload.
(10:08:18 PM) Krill: but turns out my interpretation of the rule is "invalid" compared to everyone elses
(10:08:25 PM) Krill: Could ahve done with that worker...
(10:08:31 PM) Ilios: oh poor Krill...
(10:08:38 PM) Ilios: :D
(10:08:41 PM) Krill: yeah
(10:08:58 PM) Ilios: i really need to get Ottomans in a chat
(10:09:20 PM) Krill: send them a nuke in email form?
(10:09:32 PM) Ilios: explosive
(10:09:49 PM) Ilios: maybe i'll just post in their thread
(10:10:25 PM) Ilios: so you've got a warrior heading east from your lands?
(10:10:56 PM) Krill: yeah, technically 2, but hte southern one will peal off to the south once it passes afew mountians
(10:11:14 PM) Krill: one from AM, maybe a bit south, and one from Dunmanifestin
(10:11:16 PM) Ilios: where is he atm
(10:11:27 PM) Ilios: the one head ing for ottomans
(10:11:40 PM) Ilios: tiles from your cities
(10:11:46 PM) Krill: just loging into the game, and I'll tell you
(10:12:15 PM) Krill: It's the one that met India, it is 8 SE of LD.
(10:12:36 PM) Ilios: ok so following the river like i told you
(10:12:49 PM) Krill: river?
(10:12:59 PM) Krill: there be no river where he is going...
(10:13:06 PM) Ilios: alzheimer?
(10:13:13 PM) Krill: he is heading straight for the sign that you posted on the screenshots you sent me
(10:13:28 PM) Krill: basically barbs forced me that way
(10:13:32 PM) Krill: and the forests lead there
(10:14:01 PM) Ilios: ok let me check some screenshots
(10:14:30 PM) Ilios: south of the lake?
(10:14:39 PM) Krill: the warrior is 2S and 1E of hte lake
(10:15:14 PM) Ilios: yeah you'll hit his borders anytime now
(10:15:42 PM) Ilios: ok i'll send a message to send the chariot northwest
(10:15:51 PM) Krill: cool, thanks
(10:16:15 PM) Ilios: regarding the tech path
(10:16:21 PM) Krill: shoot
(10:17:17 PM) Ilios: i think monarchy is much more important than HBR
(10:17:55 PM) Ilios: our bigger cities will churn them out much faster
(10:18:46 PM) Ilios: france is diplomatically isolated, we were the only team they'd meet
(10:18:47 PM) Ilios: met
(10:19:26 PM) Ilios: and i've been poisening their rep with all the other teams i've met so far
(10:20:18 PM) Ilios: so will you trade us poly, pretty please?
(10:21:08 PM) Ilios: and i've been thinking about what you said about MC
(10:21:32 PM) Ilios: how you thought that the one researching it will be the betrayer
(10:21:40 PM) Ilios: you still there?
(10:21:52 PM) Krill: Yeah, just thinking.
(10:24:54 PM) Ilios: is it the competion with your Hinduism?
(10:25:12 PM) Krill: Not entirely.
(10:25:20 PM) Ilios: let's hear it
(10:25:56 PM) Ilios: i'm open to a better idea
(10:26:06 PM) Krill: If I answered that you'd know my entire gameplan, regardless of how rough it really is, to deal with this entire game
(10:26:35 PM) Ilios: well obviously i can't ask you to divulge that
(10:26:51 PM) Krill: What are your traits again? Org?
(10:26:54 PM) Ilios: on a side note, we have copper in our gold city
(10:26:57 PM) Ilios: exp/org
(10:27:23 PM) Krill: get Drama
(10:27:29 PM) Ilios: ooh
(10:27:52 PM) Krill: The beeline Music and get sistenes
(10:28:02 PM) Krill: I wouldn;t contest you on that, tbh
(10:28:30 PM) Ilios: hmmm
(10:28:44 PM) Ilios: that doesn't sound very appealing to me
(10:29:01 PM) Krill: Your only way of dealing with a CRE civ on culture is pure production
(10:29:17 PM) Krill: you need lib, monument, theatre...
(10:29:30 PM) Krill: basically, it's just cheaper to not go toe to toe with them
(10:30:01 PM) Krill: Only time I ever tried to do it was in PB1.
(10:30:13 PM) Krill: but Exp/IMP incans can kinda afford the extra outlay
(10:30:42 PM) Ilios: who goes monarchy then?
(10:30:49 PM) Krill: Carthage?
(10:30:58 PM) Krill: Aztecs?
(10:31:12 PM) Ilios: after you land mono?
(10:31:14 PM) Krill: This is one of hte reasons I'm asking everyone to go max tax once they finish their current techs
(10:32:03 PM) Krill: so once Alphabet is in I can quickly crunch the numbers and tell each team what to tech. I'll be honest. I expect some teams to complain. I expect them to bitch
(10:32:21 PM) Ilios: yeah
(10:32:28 PM) Krill: I don;t think anyone is going to come out of this deal 100% hapy
(10:32:31 PM) Ilios: i already feel like bitching
(10:32:38 PM) Ilios: not likely
(10:33:14 PM) Ilios: i'll be honest
(10:33:20 PM) Krill: It's the cost of getting a powerful position in one respect. Once this is all done, everyone will be close to the ren era and it won;t even be turn 100
(10:33:31 PM) Ilios: i want a religion in our cities
(10:33:46 PM) Ilios: and then i want Org Rel and HR
(10:33:56 PM) Ilios: as soon as possible
(10:34:14 PM) Krill: You and everyone else...
(10:34:54 PM) Ilios: ah but you already have a religion
(10:35:19 PM) Krill: 17...well, 16 teams. At least 9 are screwed in that respect
(10:35:48 PM) Ilios: well i'm not saying i want to found one per se
(10:36:02 PM) Krill: Trust me, I want to give you a missionary asap
(10:36:10 PM) Krill: right now I'm focussing on one thing
(10:36:14 PM) Krill: Getting hte Oracle
(10:36:29 PM) Ilios: yeah but realistically, it won't be for quite some time now
(10:36:35 PM) Krill: After that I have up to 400 hammers worth of chops to use
(10:36:58 PM) Krill: and probably about 300 hammers worth of slaves by t75
(10:37:06 PM) Krill: and I'm not getting more than 2 settlers
(10:37:37 PM) Ilios: and after that, french denizens?
(10:37:51 PM) Krill: That depends on everyone else
(10:38:10 PM) Krill: I don;t want to do it with jsut the two of us
(10:38:25 PM) Krill: and frankly I can't afford that many war chariots
(10:38:33 PM) Ilios: yeah we'd need a dog pile
(10:38:50 PM) Krill: We need England, and I'm trying to find the team to the south of France as well
(10:39:06 PM) Ilios: gotta be either Maya or...
(10:39:20 PM) Krill: Byz
(10:39:23 PM) Krill: or Inca
(10:39:24 PM) Ilios: voila
(10:40:25 PM) Ilios: is CoL one of the techs?
(10:40:26 PM) Krill: 4 on one is decent, and shouldn;t overly hurt any of our economies
(10:40:33 PM) Ilios: agree
(10:40:33 PM) Krill: hmm, CoL?
(10:40:41 PM) Ilios: Code of Laws
(10:40:56 PM) Krill: what about it though?
(10:41:17 PM) Ilios: is it one of the techs we're heading for in the initial trades?
(10:41:43 PM) Krill: Probably. All up in the air...
(10:41:52 PM) Krill: and 630 beakers is damned expensive
(10:42:07 PM) Ilios: yeah that's a lot
(10:42:23 PM) Ilios: so i take it poly is out of the question
(10:42:34 PM) Ilios: you can be frank
(10:43:00 PM) Ilios: if it's parthenon we're talking about...
(10:43:12 PM) Krill: Ha, I wish I could afford Parth
(10:43:23 PM) Ilios: oh wait that's aesthetics now?
(10:43:27 PM) Krill: probably
(10:44:40 PM) Ilios: well you haven't answered yet buddy
(10:45:02 PM) Krill: Sufficed to say I'll me sending you Poly before turn 70...
(10:45:19 PM) Krill: *be
(10:46:12 PM) Ilios: that's great, but you mean you'll go mono first?
(10:47:25 PM) Krill: Depends. I have no clue about techs for anyone after t62. Except Ottomans who seem to be quite singleminded.
(10:47:36 PM) Ilios: UB
(10:47:48 PM) Krill: Not like they'd ever be denied maths
(10:47:58 PM) Ilios: and they're new to this as wel
(10:48:27 PM) Krill: fair point
(10:49:14 PM) Ilios: so do we tech masonry after wheel?
(10:49:56 PM) Ilios: unless you're planning on gifting india the alphabet
(10:52:25 PM) Ilios: still thinking?
(10:53:32 PM) Krill: and playing PBEM 2 turn
(10:54:10 PM) Ilios: leader/civ?
(10:55:27 PM) Krill: De gaulle of france
(10:55:42 PM) Ilios: cool
(10:55:51 PM) Ilios: what's he, CHA/IND?
(10:56:09 PM) Krill: yeah
(10:57:35 PM) Krill: anyway
(10:57:56 PM) Krill: You wanted to tech monarchy via Mono
(10:58:10 PM) Ilios: if possible
(10:58:38 PM) Ilios: but if you think of anything else, or you think that would give us too much of an advantage
(11:00:14 PM) Krill: See, I don;t quite know what I'm supposed to tech after I land Alphabet.
(11:00:47 PM) Krill: The answer "Whatever I want" isn;t really good enough
(11:01:04 PM) Ilios: ok so you want to go mono
(11:01:26 PM) Krill: It's one option
(11:01:49 PM) Krill: Aesthetics, well, I suppose I could go GL hunting
(11:03:14 PM) Ilios: well that's why i mentioned MC
(11:03:41 PM) Krill: 810 beakers! I know I have gold, but I'm not made of the stuff...
(11:04:31 PM) Ilios: btw i've got ottomans on chat
(11:05:23 PM) Krill: anything they want to ask me?
(11:05:43 PM) Ilios: sec
(11:07:45 PM) Ilios: the chariot is 8W, 5S from their capital
(11:08:03 PM) Ilios: you still in the game?
(11:08:16 PM) Krill: no but I have the world mp up
(11:08:51 PM) Ilios: i think we should send him to korea and then to portugal
(11:09:03 PM) Ilios: india's warrior at ex-korea i mean
(11:09:26 PM) Krill: Indias warrio is to me NW right now, I can see him. Tell him to keep on moving SW
(11:10:08 PM) Ilios: you mean to your ne?
(11:10:33 PM) Krill: indias warrior is 6N of my capital
(11:10:45 PM) Krill: I can pull that warrior back
(11:10:56 PM) Krill: ie get India to do it and get them to go towards Carthage
(11:11:35 PM) Krill: If Ottomans send a screenshot of their chariot, maybe I can check it's location on my map, and coordinateh te meeting
(11:11:36 PM) Ilios: get india to do?
(11:11:59 PM) Krill: I can get India to stick around and meet Ottomans, and then head over toe Carthage
(11:12:12 PM) Ilios: why don't we just have the warrior move e around you borders?
(11:12:24 PM) Ilios: they'll hit them soon enough
(11:12:26 PM) Krill: I will do.
(11:12:33 PM) Krill: But shitloads of Lions
(11:12:44 PM) Krill: I can see at least 2 and I think there is a third out there
(11:12:44 PM) Ilios: around you lands?
(11:12:49 PM) Krill: just to the north
(11:12:53 PM) Ilios: ah
(11:12:58 PM) Krill: I currently know of 5 barbs around my lands
(11:13:06 PM) Ilios: then maybe better to stay put
(11:14:15 PM) Krill: Possibly
(11:16:52 PM) Ilios: asking them a screenit
(11:17:24 PM) Ilios: while we're waiting
(11:17:37 PM) Ilios: did i mention we got copper at our gold city?
(11:17:47 PM) Krill: you jammy...
(11:18:01 PM) Ilios: gold/copper/corn(irrigated)
(11:18:03 PM) Ilios:
(11:18:21 PM) Ilios: smashing baby!
(11:18:44 PM) Krill: Probably one of the best cities in the game
(11:19:04 PM) Ilios: bah 4 peak tiles
(11:19:09 PM) Ilios: india's is better
(11:19:28 PM) Ilios: send screenshot to krill.krill?
(11:19:41 PM) Krill: snip
(11:20:05 PM) Ilios: sent
(11:20:38 PM) Krill: ok, checking...
(11:20:47 PM) Ilios: oh stone
(11:20:55 PM) Ilios: and writing in 8
(11:20:57 PM) Ilios: nice
(11:20:57 PM) Krill: bit food poor
(11:21:13 PM) Krill: ok, I know where they are now
(11:21:21 PM) Ilios: bah, theyll eat the stones
(11:21:25 PM) Ilios: good
(11:21:36 PM) Krill: they need to me this way:
(11:21:56 PM) Ilios: they need you?
(11:21:59 PM) Krill: 1, 41, 17, and then NW
(11:22:09 PM) Krill: I'm getting tired,...
(11:22:11 PM) Ilios: is that code?
(11:22:14 PM) Krill: need to move in that direct
(11:22:18 PM) Krill: keypad
(11:22:22 PM) Krill: SW
(11:22:27 PM) Krill: w sw
(11:22:30 PM) Krill: sw nw
(11:23:52 PM) Krill: They'll meet India in 3 turns if India move as I request them to
(11:24:20 PM) Ilios: told em
(11:25:08 PM) Ilios: so they move sw on the forest they ask?
(11:25:17 PM) Krill: yes
(11:25:31 PM) Ilios: ok
(11:26:29 PM) Ilios: told them to save gold
(11:26:41 PM) Krill: I take it they were a long way from writing?
(11:26:48 PM) Ilios: check the map
(11:26:56 PM) Krill: good point
(11:27:48 PM) Ilios: their economy isn't all that bad
(11:28:00 PM) Krill: nah, it's pretty decent
(11:28:17 PM) Krill: just, well, Alphabet is coming about 30 turns earlier than it should be doing
(11:29:11 PM) Ilios: smart people on that planet
(11:29:42 PM) Ilios: they'll do it
(11:29:45 PM) Krill: ok
(11:30:08 PM) Ilios: i'm glad we have a very good relationship with them
(11:30:22 PM) Ilios: it's going to be harder with Carthage and England
(11:30:27 PM) Krill: Yeah
(11:30:48 PM) Krill: Both are going to be more bullish, what with the quick third cities
(11:30:50 PM) Ilios: we'll be meeting carthage in about 5 turns
(11:30:58 PM) Krill: we jsut need to illustrate that tech is important on this map
(11:31:13 PM) Krill: Hopefully I'll be in the same situation...
(11:32:09 PM) Ilios: they wanted to trade writing for hunting masonry, but now ofcourse that's out of the question
(11:32:27 PM) Ilios: i tell them i'll gift it?
(11:32:38 PM) Krill: gift what?
(11:32:45 PM) Ilios: hunting and masonry
(11:33:21 PM) Krill: You could say you'll trade them hunting plus masonry for whatever techs they have that you need
(11:33:28 PM) Krill: somethign along those lines
(11:34:14 PM) Ilios: well they don't have anything yet we need, but i'll think of something
(11:34:26 PM) Krill: Don;t you need pottery?
(11:34:31 PM) Ilios: yeah
(11:34:48 PM) Ilios: but they won't be able to trade it withut alpha
(11:35:24 PM) Krill: I want to trade for pottery, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. I'm not going to be stingy with alpha...
(11:36:12 PM) Ilios: great buddy, because i really want pottery soon
(11:37:36 PM) Ilios: what do i do with england
(11:37:45 PM) Ilios: do i ask them to join right away?
(11:38:05 PM) Krill: tell them to get scouts out to meet everyone in the alliance
(11:38:12 PM) Krill: they are useless if they don;t know many people
(11:38:17 PM) Ilios: ok
(11:38:18 PM) Krill: ie, an MC team
(11:38:34 PM) Krill: something with a long research time so they can meet everyone by the time research is complete
(11:38:40 PM) Krill: but they can't benefit from teh early alphabet
(11:38:51 PM) Ilios: good point
(11:39:04 PM) Ilios: and carthage can go hbr... p
(11:39:22 PM) Krill: sure...
(11:39:26 PM) Krill: Numids, meh
(11:39:43 PM) Ilios: meh you don't like them or meh they're hard
(11:39:55 PM) Krill: meh they are useless
(11:40:36 PM) Ilios: well not to the guys who took Carthage
(11:40:42 PM) Ilios: their UB
(11:40:49 PM) Ilios: now that's useless on this map!
(11:41:08 PM) Krill: heh, UB can't be used, and they have a 50 hammer UU that I can toast with my 30 hammer UU
(11:42:08 PM) Ilios: yeah your UU rocks
(11:47:44 PM) Ilios: ok i've had ottomans send a message to carthage
(11:47:47 PM) Krill: So, what is happening with HBR?
(11:47:49 PM) Krill: oh, ok
(11:51:23 PM) Ilios: ottomans are 2nd in gnp
(11:51:44 PM) Krill: That's good news
(11:52:16 PM) Ilios: big culture
(11:52:27 PM) Krill: eh
(11:52:37 PM) Krill: I'm number one and have the holy city