Ranamar and Lewwyn, ministers for Bismarck of Mali

[SevenSpirits]

Btw, I had a chat with Commodore. He said he'd be in for attacking MNG concurrently with us. I said we'd probably be ready to hit around t97-100.

When we get close (and have a good army ready) let's make sure to coordinate the timing with him. We need to attack the same turn or the turn before him as ours should be more surprising.

One other comment - if MNG invades us with triremes, we ideally have our galleons out of sight range. Then rename a couple to "Caravel", whack his boats and fall back out of vision range.

[Lewwyn]

OKay more war prep. 2 galleons in motion one finished EOT. 1 of those galleons is in place. the other two will be staged at the end of next turn. The we attack. So next turn move. Then declare war.

MNG's cities:



South Galleon:



North galleons:



Whoever plays the attack turn make sure to go in with the south galleon first then the north galleon. If you can take the city with two knights and the use the other 4 to move on the capital you should be able to see what you'll have to deal with in the capital. It may be worth at that point moving the 3rd galleon into rouen which is empty and sending 2 knights overland towards MNGs cap from rouen. Then again you might need all 7 knights to take care of the capital. We can always take rouen later.

Engineering in 2 turns.

[NobleHelium]

Seven, did you ever get any details on their peace deal? Peace deals generally include NAPs, so it seems rather odd that Commodore is up for attacking MNG again so soon.

[SevenSpirits]

First, hold on:

1) How many galleons are you planning to invade with?
2) How many knights?
3) Did you remember we need to bring along the great artist and a missionary for Paris?

I think you probably neglected the last, and we need to finish another galleon in Khand (whippable next turn (96)) and in Dale (impressively, from overflow). I think this gives us 13 knights + the two civilians crewing 5 galleons? Seems good to me if so. (Plus we'll have a second-wave galleon from MT heading for his southern coast if we can muster up a crew.)

Then we can attack t98?

I'm not sure what you did last turn in terms of whipping/production but I think the above is doable even with no whips this turn. Thoughts?

Also, let's NOT HURRY when we do get the war turn. A screw-up there could really cost us.

In civilian matters:

1) We were due a great person this turn I think - what was it?!
2) I think we should build an observatory in Barad-Dur while growing on those windmills (all the 2f tiles that no other city can work, or in other words -2 specs +2 windmills) and not ever whip the city again.
3) We can probably stop building galleons once we've got, say, 6. (The ones we have plus the ones in production and another from Dale next turn, I think.)
4) We should resume spread of confucianism.

[SevenSpirits]

Seven, did you ever get any details on their peace deal? Peace deals generally include NAPs, so it seems rather odd that Commodore is up for attacking MNG again so soon.

Yes, and I think he was likely telling the truth. Commodore said that they had the 10 of enforced peace, and MNG was going to give him a spice in exchange for OB. He said MNG had said that Commodore seemed like his only possible ally and thus would like to have good relations with him. However, they do not have a NAP. The 10t enforced peace is gone on t97. (Soon enough that it's irrelevant.)

Earlier when we talked to MNG, he said he did not want to sign any NAPs at all this game, which corroborates what Commodore said. Also, in general, Commodore has been very chatty and (seemingly) open with me, which is a very strong sign that he is not lying. And, for example, he checked that we wouldn't close borders with him if he captured the great lighthouse.

So: I believe him. The fact that MNG has yet to reinforce his coastal cities and hasn't gained much power also indicates that the information hasn't leaked.

(Plus it would seem that if he betrayed us he'd suddenly find himself facing angry knights in galleons. So unlikely even if he had no scruples and was an amazing liar.)

Other diplo stuff:

Commodore has been willing to trade maps but as far as I know no deal has been offered. I asked him to offer it on his turn if he remembered.

GES should be getting us our money back nowish. He doesn't have 800 yet but I'll ask him for a gift so we can get going on techs we want.

IMO:
t96 Engineering (allowing new knights from basically anywhere to reach Dale in 1t) (turn up research after the gold gift to finish this)
t97 Meditation (AP-boosted monasteries are pretty good!)
t98 Archery (so we have longbow access after capturing Paris mid-turn-99)
t99 Priesthood
t100 Code of Laws
t101 Civil Service
(then plan more later)

We probably have enough military techs for the moment after Eng/Archery, I don't think we need gunpowder that quickly.

[Lewwyn]

First, hold on:

1) How many galleons are you planning to invade with?
2) How many knights?
3) Did you remember we need to bring along the great artist and a missionary for Paris?

I think you probably neglected the last, and we need to finish another galleon in Khand (whippable next turn (96)) and in Dale (impressively, from overflow). I think this gives us 13 knights + the two civilians crewing 5 galleons? Seems good to me if so. (Plus we'll have a second-wave galleon from MT heading for his southern coast if we can muster up a crew.)

Then we can attack t98?

I'm not sure what you did last turn in terms of whipping/production but I think the above is doable even with no whips this turn. Thoughts?

Also, let's NOT HURRY when we do get the war turn. A screw-up there could really cost us.

In civilian matters:

1) We were due a great person this turn I think - what was it?!
2) I think we should build an observatory in Barad-Dur while growing on those windmills (all the 2f tiles that no other city can work, or in other words -2 specs +2 windmills) and not ever whip the city again.
3) We can probably stop building galleons once we've got, say, 6. (The ones we have plus the ones in production and another from Dale next turn, I think.)
4) We should resume spread of confucianism.

I whipped two knights with 2 pop whips last turn. Osi and Grey (forgot to tae out the signs though so don't whip them the next turn.) Also forgot to check the GP.

On the galleon notes, yes I was planning the galleon whip in Khand and the galleon is in queued in Dale already. I had thought that the GA could hop on the khand galleon and follow in just a turn behind. So actually there are two options here.

A) We go as I have outline here with the GA coming on a galleon a turn behind.
B) we put the GA on the southern Galleon instead of one of the knights and move with 6 knights and the GA at the capital.
C) We wait a turn to get the khand and Dale Galleons into place with the GA, missionaries and 4 more knights.

I'm partial to getting these knights moving on MNG ASAP, but I'm willing to temper the bloodthirst. I'm just a bit worried since MNG was bringing those 2 triremes up, it means he's suspicious.

[SevenSpirits]

I whipped two knights with 2 pop whips last turn. Osi and Grey (forgot to tae out the signs though so don't whip them the next turn.) Also forgot to check the GP.

On the galleon notes, yes I was planning the galleon whip in Khand and the galleon is in queued in Dale already. I had thought that the GA could hop on the khand galleon and follow in just a turn behind. So actually there are two options here.

A) We go as I have outline here with the GA coming on a galleon a turn behind.
B) we put the GA on the southern Galleon instead of one of the knights and move with 6 knights and the GA at the capital.
C) We wait a turn to get the khand and Dale Galleons into place with the GA, missionaries and 4 more knights.

I'm partial to getting these knights moving on MNG ASAP, but I'm willing to temper the bloodthirst. I'm just a bit worried since MNG was bringing those 2 triremes up, it means he's suspicious.

So I guess since we have engineering and will obliterate a lot of his culture, it might be fine to have the civilians one turn behind depending on his road network. (If he only has the one path from Orleans to Paris it's no good since I am pretty sure Tours' borders controls those tiles.) It's important we get them to Paris ASAP though as it makes it so much easier to defend, and we don't want to have to waste any knights escorting them later. (The original plan was for the attack force to also be their escort, which is no problem!)

However, correct me if I'm wrong but I think we only have access to three galleons if we attack t97. That's not good enough. We need a galleon for Rouen, one for Orleans (which will take 2-3 knights), and certainly we want at least 6 knights to attack paris with! I don't think MNG has any idea we're attacking, let's just wait the extra turn and make sure we have sufficient force to take and hold three cities.

You still haven't said how many knights/galleons you're planning to attack with though, that would make this discussion easier.

[Lewwyn]

Well,

A) Would be 9 knights on 3 galleons T97, 2 galleons with GA, missionary, and 4 knights a turn behind.
B) Would be 8 knights and one GA on T97, 2 Galleons with Missionary and 5 knights a turn behind.
C) Would be 13 knights, 1 Ga 1 missionary on 5 Galleons on T98

The benefit of the first two is we hit a turn earlier, less chance we get found out. Less chance that MNG is able to whip units after seeing our hugee power spike.

C gives the benefit that we get a full force that allows us to hit rouen as well as orleans and paris with overwhelming force. Is it worth the one turn? No idea. That's why I've said I don't mind waiting if you all agree.

[Ranamar]

I'm generally immensely conservative when it comes to attacking, so I'm inclined to advocate waiting the one turn. On the other hand, if we're going to move to attack on T97, I'd advocate leaving the civilians behind to get as many knights moving as we can. The support units can follow behind and be escorted by the reinforcing knights, because they all have 2 moves.

[Lewwyn]

Turn. War makes me happy.

We've decided on C then. T97 last turn prep. T98 Attack.

Lets take a look at the plan:



Here we see MNG is attempting a trireme blockade which is fairly useless. Not only can we easily kill these units but we can end the turn inside the city after we've captured it.

North:



South:



We just need to move the units specified onto the galleons and move the 3 galleons to the stage in the north and the 2 galleons to the stage in the south. I probably should have marked it with signs on the game map. But just look here whoever gets the next turn.

In terms of building I got the Confucian missionary by stealing the iron hill mine from dale. May want to give that back later. In BD I put to specialists onto windmills and we grew EOT. The GP that popped was a GS. I didn't do anything with him yet. No settling and bulb is at alphabet at the moment.

I whipped the Mint in Bree and the granary in Bag end. Set Lorien to another 2 turn galleon. Everything else is knights.

GES gave us 500 gold this turn and turned tech to 100% to get Engineering in 1 turn. MNG offered Open Borders, I declined.

Everything feels really good. Next turn is the last staging/prep turn. T98 we bring the pain.