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T-hawk Wrote:Doesn't work unless I remove Sullla as a forum admin entirely (which I wouldn't do), since he could just add back any mod powers to himself.
I can't help anything here by fighting with Sullla. He's liable to quit this game or RB entirely before he yields to me or anyone else. I don't have the stomach to go oneupsmanship with him or the persuasiveness to do it peacefully.
Who knew someone who named himself after a famous Roman Dictator would be so hardheaded?! 
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fluffyflyingpig Wrote:Who knew someone who named himself after a famous Roman Dictator would be so hardheaded?!
Joke taken, but I have to point out that Sullla really didn't do anything wrong or hardheaded here. He was correctly enforcing the no-communication rule of the game as written, after one player tried to unilaterally break it. And that is Sullla's job as forum admin. He closed the thread to avoid the heated arguments. (That the attempt failed and Thoth carried on in the tech thread isn't Sullla's fault.)
Please read Sullla's actual posts again -- we're ascribing a lot of sentiment and behavior to him that didn't actually happen. Everything he said was politely and reasonably stated. He didn't even do the "I know I'm being an ass" thing, because he wasn't. He never cursed or yelled at anybody. He also didn't override the collective will of the players, because there wasn't any, just Thoth being loud and a couple halfhearted agreements. Sullla hasn't even disagreed with the notion that the players could collectively agree to open a public thread if many or all agreed. Frankly, I respect Sullla's conduct here tremendously, refusing to get drawn into a nasty fight and instead being the bigger man to walk away calmly.
Can we please not lynch Sullla for what he didn't actually do?
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T-hawk Wrote:Doesn't work unless I remove Sullla as a forum admin entirely (which I wouldn't do), since he could just add back any mod powers to himself.
I can't help anything here by fighting with Sullla. He's liable to quit this game or RB entirely before he yields to me or anyone else. I don't have the stomach to go oneupsmanship with him or the persuasiveness to do it peacefully. Oh well, it was just a thought. Guess the forum software doesn't work the way I hoped though.
Is Thoth being a bit provocative with some of his posts? Sure. Has Sullla lost some sense of proportion in his reactions? Definitely. Shame we can't really do much except hope he just chills out a bit with the trigger-happy moderation finger. 
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T-hawk Wrote:Please read Sullla's actual posts again -- we're ascribing a lot of sentiment and behavior to him that didn't actually happen. Everything he said was politely and reasonably stated. He didn't even do the "I know I'm being an ass" thing, because he wasn't. He never cursed or yelled at anybody. He also didn't override the collective will of the players, because there wasn't any, just Thoth being loud and a couple halfhearted agreements. Sullla hasn't even disagreed with the notion that the players could collectively agree to open a public thread if many or all agreed. Frankly, I respect Sullla's conduct here tremendously, refusing to get drawn into a nasty fight and instead being the bigger man to walk away calmly.
Can we please not lynch Sullla for what he didn't actually do? Seconded.
There are two kinds of fools. One says, "This is old, and therefore good." And one says, "This is new, and therefore better." - John Brunner, The Shockwave Rider
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Well there's nothing terrible about Sullla's posts except that he's abusing his mod powers alongside them. But that is a real problem.
Edit: Let me put it this way, we've gotten through every game here with - as far as I know - no moderator intervention of this nature. What to post in that thread, or whether they should post in it at all, is something the players of the game should be able to figure out on their own. If they can't it doesn't speak well to the game. And if they really needed a mod they could ask for one. Just unilaterally taking action like that is a poor choice.
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*hides in the lurker thread, ridiculing Sullla for accusing people of sniping and taking cheap shots*
... am I doing it right?
If you know what I mean.
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SevenSpirits Wrote:Well there's nothing terrible about Sullla's posts except that he's abusing his mod powers alongside them. But that is a real problem.
Edit: Let me put it this way, we've gotten through every game here with - as far as I know - no moderator intervention of this nature. What to post in that thread, or whether they should post in it at all, is something the players of the game should be able to figure out on their own. If they can't it doesn't speak well to the game. And if they really needed a mod they could ask for one. Just unilaterally taking action like that is a poor choice.
Being serious for a moment, SevenSpirits stated things pretty well here. You should not have mod powers over something you are heavily invested in. Full stop.
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SevenSpirits Wrote:Well there's nothing terrible about Sullla's posts except that he's abusing his mod powers alongside them. But that is a real problem.
Edit: Let me put it this way, we've gotten through every game here with - as far as I know - no moderator intervention of this nature. What to post in that thread, or whether they should post in it at all, is something the players of the game should be able to figure out on their own. If they can't it doesn't speak well to the game. And if they really needed a mod they could ask for one. Just unilaterally taking action like that is a poor choice.
This. Everything else Sullla did was fine, it's the mod powers and usage there of that is the issue.
Current games (All): RtR: PB80 Civ 6: PBEM23
Ended games (Selection): BTS games: PB1, PB3, PBEM2, PBEM4, PBEM5B, PBEM50. RB mod games: PB5, PB15, PB27, PB37, PB42, PB46, PB71. FFH games: PBEMVII, PBEMXII. Civ 6: PBEM22 Games ded lurked: PB18
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I find it quaint that in all the games at RB, this kind of crap only happens when Sullla and/or Speaker are playing.
There is something these two do that seems to bring out the worst in people.
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Oh, I'd say this kind of crap happens pretty often right now. PBEM 23 had the peace-and-city blowup between SevenNovices and Luddicator. PBEM 17 had one about AP victory. In both those cases cooler heads managed to prevail after a while, however.
I agree that Sullla didn't do anything formally wrong, but I also believe he has a tendency to be quite abrasive and inflexible, and using his mod powers as he has done here - twice now! - is unconsidered and shows poor judgment. Much better to have T-Hawk step in and lock threads or delete posts if he sees it as necessary.
It should be mentioned that Thoth also showed poor judgment. Yeah, I can understand his trying to lighten things up (we've been doing our very best here in the lurker thread!), and I think having a bragging thread can make the social aspect of the game stronger and isn't necessarily out of place even in an always war game, but he went out of his way in antagonising Sullla (who doesn't take kindly to provocations).
I know Sullla wants to build on and nurture Realms Beyond, but a large part of the community has been that it's been largely self-policing. Heavy-handed, excessive, or un-needed moderator actions is arguably one of the most effective ways of destroying a culture of self-policing.
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