The Kuriotates: A Tale of Centaurs, Hubris, and Unbridled Enthusiasm

[NobleHelium]

I approve of the new thread name.

[Commodore]

BASIUM IS COME. And did jack-all. I meandered about a we bit, admired the flaming puppies on the ridge-line, and moved half the angelic host towards the new ground.



Naggy is unhappy because I moved all its garrison out unthinkingly. I didn't ask for Killswitch, figuring you'd rather enjoy its health and wealth one more turn. You can offer on your turn, and then I can accept. Interesting other spots to settle my second town.




As I lack build queues, no fear of anarchy. All of them, swapped!



Password is "Basium".

[HidingKneel]

Looking good, Commodore. But thread retitling aside, this would be a bad time to get overconfident! Bad things are afoot:



That mistform is still at large, so be careful with your units (I think it's near Kwythellar). But we're down two more workers, and not from a mistform this time! Plako has chosen this moment to show up on my eastern borders:



This made me nervous, so I took a look at the tech screen to see if Plako has sorcery:



It's worse than that: he has Arcane Lore. So we'd better keep a lookout for mobile summons. I decided Avelorn was looking a little vulnerable with a garrison of one wounded warrior, so I moved two centaurs down there and one to Killswitch. Be careful with that settler/worker pair, Commodore.

Also on the tech screen: Ilios has Omniscience under "can research"
But doesn't have KotE or Philosophy?

Our workforce is now down to 2 workers and a slave .

The other bit of news is that the research penalty means no smelting this turn. Here's the breakdown of those techs we were talking about, and how long they'll take to research at our present breakeven rate:

Smelting: 2 more turns (end of turn 83)
Cartography: 1 turn
Currency: 5 turns
Sanitation: 4 turns
Orders from Heaven: 6 turns

That isn't accounting for overflow or economic growth in the meanwhile, so I'd expect the situation is a bit better than that. Still, these techs will probably keep us tied up for a while. Should have gotten more research in before Basium came out, but nothing we can do about that now.

I used our mobile centaur to take another look at Bob:



Looks like he's bunkering down in Cauldron lake. More corpses than last time, IIRC. Wonder why he isn't building Mardero?

Anyways, it looks like his invasion force is headed for Kwythellar, and will be woefully inadequate. He can be in a position to hit the city on turn 84. But we'll have paladins on turn 83, ready to attack out on turn 84 (one of those will even be C3, thanks to passive xp gain). As soon as that's taken care of, I'm going to spread our centaurs out some more.

Finally, I offered Killswitch to the Mercurians:



Actually I might have done that twice. Hopefully they don't cancel out or something .

So, next turn, Commodore will need to offer iron (in exchange for any health/happiness resources that we have more than one of).

[HidingKneel]

Interesting other spots to settle my second town.

I like the forest tile northwest of the sheep.

[Mardoc]

I like the forest tile northwest of the sheep.

I think we'd best make Commodore a bunch more settlers, ASAP . Too many awesome spots.

Also - can I talk you into adding Hunting -> Animal Mastery for Hawks into our near term tech plan? I'd really feel a lot more comfortable if we could see what plako's up to (and Thoth, and Iliios).

[HidingKneel]

Turn 83 played.

First, we got our precious, precious iron:



Earth mana too. I guess it makes sense for us to hold it, since we're working some mines right now. I used the iron to upgrade two of our stonewardens to paladins. Produced another two stonewardens at end of turn. Next turn I'll promote those, cancel the deal, and send some more resources over the Mercurians.

Question: Basium and his angels can use iron weapons. Can they equip themselves in Kuriotate cities while we have iron? Or do they need to travel to a Mercurian city for that?

Speaking of those angels, something took a bite out of one of them:



Hopefully that's the end of our mistform problems. That was a very expensive dungeon pop! Oh well... karma had it in for us, after our phenomenal luck early on.

Also visible in that screenshot: Bob's beasts are coming from the northwest, where we've got fewer roads in place. Makes sense I guess, but I can still hit them with 2-movers from Kwythellar next turn, even if they don't come any closer. Unless Bob retreats, I plan to kill those beasts next turn.

For ease of reference, I renamed my centaurs with the Kilmorph religion "heroic centaurs". I thought we had three of them, but it looks like only two. One of them's got a ton of experience though, so Commodore can expect some quality troops soon.

Also - can I talk you into adding Hunting -> Animal Mastery for Hawks into our near term tech plan? I'd really feel a lot more comfortable if we could see what plako's up to (and Thoth, and Iliios).

I'd love to have some hawks right now to keep eyes on Plako and Ilios (though I suspect watching Thoth would be a little dull). But hunting + animal handling is over 1200 beakers, and I think it's lower in priority than our other options right now.

Speaking of Plako, his skeleton is no longer visible. Makes me nervous knowing that he's out there (and ready to swoop in when he sees workers near our borders), so I moved another centaur into Avelorn. And Commodore will be reinforcing Killswitch next turn with some angels, so hopefully we'll be okay.

Smelting came in at end of turn, revealing iron. We've got two iron tiles in our borders. One is here:



That one can't be worked by any of our cities, but gives a little extra incentive for Basium to settle down there in the not-too-distant future. Should probably wait until he's got cartography, though; we don't want the killer maintenance costs.

The other iron plot is by Avelorn:



That tile already has a village on it. I'm thinking it's not worth changing.
3 commerce is already competitive with 3 hammers, and has more long-term potential.

Jeweler is a three-turn build in all three cities. I think I'll do that next.
According to my calculations it ought to add 44 beakers to our reserach rate (so around a +25% increase), which will only get better as we add more commerce. Plus Naggarond needs happiness buildings in order to grow.
When that's done, we can get to the business of cranking out workers and settlers for Basium.

So, time to choose our next tech. Our options:

1) Sanitation: It's the cheapest of the techs under consideration: I think we could get it out by the end of turn 87. Gives an immediate benefit of bonus food in each city, and enables some other buildings which will be useful for growth.

2) Currency: I think we can have this by turn 88. Enables gold trading, and will let us run consumption. Also unlocks moneychangers, but I doubt we'll be able to spare the hammers to build those in the immediate future.

3) Orders from Heaven: Most expensive of our options; I think we can have it by turn 89. Gives us free units, lets the Kuriotates build cheap temples, and will allow Commodore to get culture to his cities. Unlocks a religious hero, lets us build the code of Junil (which will be worth an increasingly large sum as Basium expands). Confessors are an effective +1 strength to our entire army, and unlocks crusaders for a cheap way for the Kuriotates to produce shock troops that are guaranteed to turn into angels. (Doubt we'll want to spare the hammers for that, though.)

So from what I gather, Mardoc favors Currency, and Commodore favors Sanitation. I'm in favor of Orders from Heaven. Because of the three options, it's the only one that helps our military situation (and helps our economy at the same time). I think we're walking a tightrope: if we weren't already a dogpile target, we definitely are now that we've build the Gate. Good thing there's no diplomacy in this game !

One last thing: Commodore, it looks like you're running 100% science in Killswitch. Probably makes sense to switch to 0% science and take advantage of the God-King multiplier. That gold will be handy once we do research currency. Plus, you never know when you'll get an awesome event.

[NobleHelium]

You can't cancel trade deals initiated in the last ten turns.

[Commodore]

Okay! I have no problem whatsoever with religion-chasing! It's my favorite mini-game in Civ. Plus, as you said, sooner we get Valin collecting XP, the better. If Plako is going for mages with skellies, that means a lot of specters, right? Life mages in our spare time!

Sorry for falling down on the report; that was a mistform suicide on an angel.

[Mardoc]

Question: Basium and his angels can use iron weapons. Can they equip themselves in Kuriotate cities while we have iron? Or do they need to travel to a Mercurian city for that?

I thought they could...only they'd have picked up copper weapons already. So I'm afraid they'll have to go home. Or have home brought to them.

Also visible in that screenshot: Bob's beasts are coming from the northwest, where we've got fewer roads in place. Makes sense I guess, but I can still hit them with 2-movers from Kwythellar next turn, even if they don't come any closer. Unless Bob retreats, I plan to kill those beasts next turn.

Woohoo!

For ease of reference, I renamed my centaurs with the Kilmorph religion "heroic centaurs". I thought we had three of them, but it looks like only two. One of them's got a ton of experience though, so Commodore can expect some quality troops soon.

"heroic"...interesting euphenism . Presumably we'll have more 'heroic' units if/when we ever get around to building units.

I'd love to have some hawks right now to keep eyes on Plako and Ilios (though I suspect watching Thoth would be a little dull). But hunting + animal handling is over 1200 beakers, and I think it's lower in priority than our other options right now.

Without a need to go Mistform hunting, I agree it's somewhat less of a priority. Perhaps we can spread out the centaurs once Bob's been suppressed, have a couple of them wandering the lush grasslands as scouts?

That tile already has a village on it. I'm thinking it's not worth changing.
3 commerce is already competitive with 3 hammers, and has more long-term potential.

Probably right. Although I do want redundant iron when possible, it obviously doesn't matter until we can afford to pick up Iron Working.

Jeweler is a three-turn build in all three cities. I think I'll do that next.
According to my calculations it ought to add 44 beakers to our reserach rate (so around a +25% increase), which will only get better as we add more commerce. Plus Naggarond needs happiness buildings in order to grow.
When that's done, we can get to the business of cranking out workers and settlers for Basium.

Sounds like a solid plan. We definitely need to boost our econ, I don't like the way the demos have been looking lately.

So from what I gather, Mardoc favors Currency, and Commodore favors Sanitation. I'm in favor of Orders from Heaven. Because of the three options, it's the only one that helps our military situation (and helps our economy at the same time). I think we're walking a tightrope: if we weren't already a dogpile target, we definitely are now that we've build the Gate. Good thing there's no diplomacy in this game !

I would agree, except that we've no hammers to spare just yet. Add to your to-do list a couple extra Stonewardens to build temples in Angelic lands, a couple extra to have Shield of Faith available after we switch religions (and backup Paladins when the original set hits a bad RNG stretch), and Forges when possible. Yeah, Forges are expensive, at 167 hammers a pop, but they're worth something like 5-10 hpt in each city, now, and more later; they'll actually pay for themselves pretty quickly. I just don't see us having the hammers to spend on Order units/temples/etc this instant.

Currency would only be a 2-3 turn delay. Also, you left out the +1 TR/city benefit; and remember that's free commerce, which will get run through Tailors/Jewelers, then Academy etc - Currency is probably worth ~10 bpt in Kurio cities, plus another 10 from adding to Commodore and running his gold through our Academies, and it costs no hammers. Further benefits once we have hammers to spare. But the main thing is the ~20 bpt it will give us.

[HidingKneel]

If Plako is going for mages with skellies, that means a lot of specters, right? Life mages in our spare time!

Hah! Actually, alchemy labs make sorcery look pretty appealing. So that sounds like a good option once we secure our tower of divination techs.
In the meanwhile, angels make a pretty good counter to spectres... aren't they immune to fear and death damage?

Speaking of the tower of Divination: another route we might go with that is Rage, which I think we also have the prereqs for right now. Seraphs look pretty awesome on paper (though I've never actually seen them in any FFH game I've played).

You can't cancel trade deals initiated in the last ten turns.

Rats. Looks like those Mercurian paladins are going to be delayed a bit. But that does mean I can hold off on promoting the other two stonewardens: let them accrue some more passive xp, and meanwhile run the science slider
a little higher.

Without a need to go Mistform hunting, I agree it's somewhat less of a priority. Perhaps we can spread out the centaurs once Bob's been suppressed, have a couple of them wandering the lush grasslands as scouts?

This is a good idea. I think I'll keep them fairly close to home. But stationing them just outside our culture, and having them sprint two tiles out, then two tiles back... that ought to be fairly safe, while still giving us something of an early warning mechanism.

I would agree, except that we've no hammers to spare just yet. Add to your to-do list a couple extra Stonewardens to build temples in Angelic lands, a couple extra to have Shield of Faith available after we switch religions (and backup Paladins when the original set hits a bad RNG stretch), and Forges when possible. Yeah, Forges are expensive, at 167 hammers a pop, but they're worth something like 5-10 hpt in each city, now, and more later; they'll actually pay for themselves pretty quickly. I just don't see us having the hammers to spend on Order units/temples/etc this instant.

I don't think it'll take that many hammers to get a huge benefit out of the religion. Building a temple of Order and a confessor is a total of 120 hammers, which Kwythellar can pull off in three turns. And a single confessor is a huge boost to our military: he can turn all of our strength 4 centaurs into strength 5 centaurs.

Currency would only be a 2-3 turn delay. Also, you left out the +1 TR/city benefit; and remember that's free commerce, which will get run through Tailors/Jewelers, then Academy etc - Currency is probably worth ~10 bpt in Kurio cities, plus another 10 from adding to Commodore and running his gold through our Academies, and it costs no hammers. Further benefits once we have hammers to spare. But the main thing is the ~20 bpt it will give us.

Could argue that the other way too: going Orders of Heaven before currency is probably a 4 turn delay. During those 4 turns we miss out on extra Kuriotate trade routes (4 x 3 x 1.5 x 1.85 = ~33 beakers) and extra Mercurian trade routes (4 x 3 = 12 gold x 1.85 = ~22 beakers). So we're trading 55 beakers for earlier access to some extra military power
(and a little bit more passive xp on Valin and our first few confessors).
Actually somewhat less than that: earlier Orders from Heaven means earlier Code of Junil and spread of order, which is itself worth a bit of gold, probably enough to make the Mercurian trade routes a wash.

Hard to say whether or not it's worth it. If we get left alone to build? Currency is better. But if Plako or Ilios starts invading in the next 15 turns? I think we'll really want Order.