[PB37 SPOILER] Coeurva, Bacchus -- Cyrus of Carthage

[Coeurva]

In my first actual strategic consideration of the thread, I think settling the GG would be the right move if we can also secure the Statue of Zeus. Can we, though? After Currency, CoL will probably take priority (courthouses, Caste System; use GA for NumCav).

We're somewhat close to obtaining a 10XP unit, another point in favour of Aesthetics...

[Bacchus]

Another idea anticipating March numids is to medicize (eventually) a morale axe. The advantage is that a morale axe yields significant benefit right now, especially in case of any war with Savant. And a morale axe is arguably a better eventual cover for a numid stack. But getting it to medic III would be tricky.

I also like the leadership idea if you think we can sustain base XP gains at the rate of 3+.

[Bacchus]

Do we know what Krill got from Oracle? Given his apparent war with Ventessel and him being Agg/Chm your aesthetics logic would apply to his situation no less than to ours.

[Mardoc]

Also, could a genlurker please opine on whether us asking for peace and Atlantic City is legal?

Looks like nope. Can't trade cities for anything, not even peace.

Other:
* No city gifting or trading

[Coeurva]

Thanks for clarifying, Mardoc. Wasn't sure if "trading" referred to peace concessions as well, but makes sense if it does.

We might get a 4XP axe from the battle for Atlantic City by producing a 2XP axe in Vermin; if we spend the GG on that, we could take C1 (2) -> Med1 (4) -> Med2 (8) -> Med3 (13) -> Morale (20), right? (Wouldn't be possible without CHM.) -- EDIT: Or just take any fresh axe, of course, if we plan not to attack with it.

Regarding the Oracle, see post #343. Krill took a Classical tech; that's all we know. If he took CoL or Philo or Monotheism, we'll know next turn from checking the event log, but everything else is in play.

EDIT: Another idea: Navigation II galley, to compete with Mr. Magellan to our north. Not the worst idea actually, if he keeps leaving Harmondale defended by one warrior. (We'd have to attack at Sorpigal by land, obviously.)

[Bacchus]

Navigation 2 galley could be very intersting. Especially as it would be two galleys. The requirement for amphibious has also been lowered in RtR I think.

[Coeurva]

The problem is that we'll need about a dozen turns to build said galleys, which is a cost in itself compared to settling the general or leading a Morale/Med3 axe, but Whitehall will have decent production (10+ hpt) once it can work its mines, and the first galley gets chopped or whipped out anyway, so as to build X8.

I especially like that these galleys would even see good use if we don't need to wage war against Savant any time soon, supplying the north-western islands. We should probably try to keep them hidden from him, though -- or failing that, at least one of them.

A Morale/Med3 axe would be more immediately useful against CML (right now, in fact), although I'm still not sure if we can actually take the capital before he gathers a sensible mix of axes and spears inside. There's a chance of him overbuilding spears. as he overbuilt axes.

There's a strong argument against keeping a Morale axe in a chariot stack, though -- it becomes the top defender vs. axes and dies first.

Couldn't find any reference to Amphibious in the RtR 2.0.8.3 changelog; maybe that was some other version (3.x?).

[Coeurva]

First of all: Chernobog be praised. Looking at CivStats, my incompetence goes unpunished this time.

There seems to be some kind of Mexican stand-off going on with the turn timer, where none of Krill, Gavagai and Savant wanted to go first on a (potential?) split. They all refused to end turn, although Savant eventually gave in. The game is still on pause due to that, I'm assuming. (Technically, Ventessel hasn't logged in yet, but that's probably because he's in a split with Krill, checked CivStats to see that Krill hadn't ended turn, and didn't bother.) I asked in the tech thread anyway, if only because writing something like "can you please settle on a turn-split?" in a public thread seems spoilerish.

Regarding the Great General, I'm currently in favour of saving him for the pair of NavII galleys. The Medic Morale axe seems too vulnerable to enemy axes before we produce NumCav (at which point we'll probably generate another GG anyway). Settling him inside Vermin for 4XP units vs. CML seems like another good option, though. Could even save us the need for a stable and thus produce one extra NumCav.

I don't think we can take CML's capital, unless we can outnumber his military 3-for-1 by the time we're in position. Two C1+Shock chariots win against one unfortified spear in a 40% cultural defense hill city 14% of the time. A C3+Shock axe and a C1+Shock axe win against one 25% fortified axe across river etc. 62% of the time.

He can also deny Atlantic City to us, simply by preventing it from growing to size2. While I'm hoping he doesn't figure that out, I'm inclined to raze and resettle this spot rather than waiting for it to grow (and we couldn't even tell, because CML can whip it before we play -- going first has its advantages just as well). We have a half-finished settler still in production inside Vermin, after all. Not least, we could reduce our unit maintenance.

The chariot currently inside the capital will probably go south. The Ignis chariot goes west, and the spear goes inside Ignis. Think we should signal Savant our peaceful (if watchful) intent now, since he seems to have some unspecified trouble with Gavagai and we're busy with CML.

How sensible would a map trade be? He already knows about Whitehall and Ignis, his best targets for attack, but of course he'd gain much more information on our other cities, including the capital (and he'd know if/when we take Atlantic City). In return, he probably has a serviceable map if he could already claim circumnavigation and presumably meet JR4/RefSteel overseas. I'm still thinking not to give our map to either neighbour, though.

[Bacchus]

Don't give him the map. He has no idea what's going on on the CML front, and neither should he.

[Coeurva]

Well, he knows we razed a CML city and build lots of units, arguably too many. Or maybe we can bluff Iron Working for a few turns. Absolutely see your point, though -- for all he knows (and indeed, everything he can see, such as our power graphs, should suggest this), CML declared on us, which becomes much less likely once Savant knows for sure that CML built Henge. (Although he could have figured that out from score increases + IND predilections.) And we don't need to let him know we might capture another city soon.

Here's another idea: Morale (+ assorted promos) axe/chariot + one Navigation II galley. But we don't award the Morale promo before the unit lands. It would gain 1 movement and attack on the same turn, essentially faking Amphibious, but better. The unit could still be used for other purposes.

Actually would be useful to take CML's copper city by surprise, or disconnect the copper at least. Major victory if we can also disconnect the source at his capital. Lifeblood sucks for production/whipping before it hits size5, but it could be done.

The current plan is for Vermin to take one of Lifeblood's cottages as it grows next turn, while Lifeblood swaps grass mine -> sheep and cottage -> rice (the min food configuration was used to maximize granary storage; 14/28f eot).

I'm currently on the fence whether building two mines at Sicil/Whitehall was the right call; one of them could have been another riverside cottage. Getting to Sicil's Library sooner unlocks the plains sheep hill earlier, though. The grass hill cow will also be improved. Might want to direct a worker here from the capital soonish, to chop the galley. Next turn, though, they'll all convene to 1t a cottage for Rhapsody. Yeah, going all-out on these, really. Wonder if it's worth settling the west-coast filler. Probably not before a second island city, to shave more profit off Currency.

Next turn will bring actual screenshots again. I think we've lost chumchu already