[SPOILERS] ARRR Ye Scurvy Dogs! Hannah the Irin

[Mardoc]

Well, Nyktorion's still not sure that WK is out, so he's trying to talk him back into the attack. I think it's mostly too late, but there's still a low probability chance that he can be persuaded to join the forces of goodness and light (ok, ok, the forces of underdog1 and underdog2). One piece of news that certainly helps is this:

In other news, Thoth's stacks have entered my lands now. This has forced me to cast my world spell. My treants did have an enormous effect: their help led to the destruction of a significant part of Thoth's army. His soldier count at the end of my previous turn was 1394k, while at the end of my current turn, it was only 968k (i.e. he lost over 400k in units)! His most significant losses are two eidola, two beasts of agares, some paramanders and stygian guards, eight chariots (including the highly promoted general martok!), orthus' axe, and the infernal grimoire.

In other news, Nox Noctis was built this turn. If I understand it correctly, only Empyrean units can now see mine outside of cities. It's also +14 gold .

And Hemah was born. I traded Ivory for Enchantment with Thoth, and will hopefully in a turn or two get Ice from Heisenberg, so that Hemah can double cast Snowfall when the war comes around. After that, it'll be Mobility and straight up the Combat line for improved spell damage.

Plus I'm enchanting all my blades now .

Here's my current production:



I figure I need to get the cultists/chariots built now, I can spam warriors when I'm ready to upgrade them, but there's not much point until then.

[DaveV]

In other news, Nox Noctis was built this turn. If I understand it correctly, only Empyrean units can now see mine outside of cities.

According to my tests, there is no way to beat Nox Noctis invisibility. Not nobody, not no how.

Hemah can double cast Snowfall when the war comes around.

I assume you're talking about a spellstaff here? Because Twincast only works for summons.

[Mardoc]

According to my tests, there is no way to beat Nox Noctis invisibility. Not nobody, not no how.

Oooh! Well, except for one, minor method - crush the cities and pull my borders away from my units.

Regardless, I'm starting to think grabbing CoE may have been the smartest move I made all game .

Sareln? This is being addressed in your paring mod, right? It's ridiculously unbalanced if it's not.

I assume you're talking about a spellstaff here? Because Twincast only works for summons.

Yep, hence why I had to get Enchantment from Thoth (or WK, but he doesn't seem to have it at the moment). The trouble is I didn't quite leave myself enough time between Hemah born and 7 promotions later (Ice 3, Enchantment 3, Mobility), let alone 13 promotions (+ Combat 5, + Haste). So he'll likely be growing in effectiveness as the war goes on. Even if he gains 2 XP a turn, I think I'll have to choose at first between Spellstaff and Mobility. Oh well, at least I have Body mana and adepts who can grant me some of that speed.

[NobleHelium]

According to my tests, there is no way to beat Nox Noctis invisibility. Not nobody, not no how.

Not even the Perfect Sight promotion?

[Mardoc]

Well, WarriorKnight has 'replied' to Nyktorion's attempt to talk him out of attacking Heisenberg and into attacking Thoth. But frankly, it reads more like excuses than reasons.

[COLOR="Cyan"]I am fairly certain that it was a Heisenburg privateer. Before dying, my caravel ended turn next to a Sheaim city on the Eastern coast which held a HN Privateer inside belonging to the Sheaim (it had to be Sheaim because only your own HN units can enter your cities) which makes him the suspect. The other potential candidate is Thoth (I hope it wasn't attacked by either of you) which I can't rule out thanks to Hidden Nationality but is still unlikely given the above info (plus I don't think Thoth has built any Privateers in the first place since he'd probably rather build stronger Frigates instead, although I could easily be wrong). My NAP with Heisenburg doesn't have a hidden nationality clause, but just because we didn't specify Hidden Nationality doesn't give him the right to attack my units if he has Hidden Nationality on them (take another example. If you have a NAP with the svartalfor without the HN clause and they pop their worldspell, would you tolerate being invaded by hidden nationality elf units?). I'm also not sure why he would choose to attack one of my caravels scouting around, however since I haven't heard anything from him about it I have to assume that it wasn't an accident, and if your neighbor purposely attacks your units, it's usually not good news.

Allow me to congratulate you on your victory against Thoth. I hope you can exploit your newly created window against him to cause as much damage as possible. However, the tactical situation is a bit different on my border. Am I correct in saying that both of your armies were in a standoff facing each other for several turns, and the main reason you were able to destroy his stack now, aside from your worldspell, is that he moved his army within range of your own? The difference between us is that, thanks to Sanctuary, Thoth is solely focused on defense since he can't attack me, so I don't have a very good chance chance of luring his army on my border into a tile that I can reach to weaken it. The other option is for me to attack him, but as I've said many times before I can't reach his cities in 1 turn from my border since he scorched several tiles plus his border cities have a decent amount of culture. Leaving my army anywhere else in his border will leave me exposed to a counterattack. I'm not saying that I won't take a opportunity to weaken him should it arise, but while you may have created a window of opportunity on your border, it sadly doesn't affect his units on my border.

While it is true that Sanctuary is currently in effect so I don't have to worry about a attack from Heisenburg in the short term, that's not a ideal long term solution to the problem. Attacking Thoth will be difficult, as I've mentioned above, but since I only have one front with him defending against him should be manageable. On the other hand, I have at least 3 different fronts for Heisenburg to attack from so defending against him will be more difficult tactically compared to defending against Thoth. I would instead prefer to deal with the situation ASAP so I don't have to worry about defending against him in the first place.[/COLOR]

In light of that, Nyktorion and I signed an addendum to our NAP:

hereby, I suggest the following change to the terms of our NAP: we had a clause stating that if anyone of us declares war on somebody different than Thoth, then the other side may prematurely end the NAP. I would be fine with adding the following exception: if said war declaration is against WK, and WK has previously declared war on Heisenberg, the clause does not apply.

This war is going to push my civ and tactical mind to the edge, I think. I'll have at least five fronts to worry about:

1. Defense of Heisenberg - mostly Heisenberg's problem, but I will provide Hawks and Assassins and maybe other stuff if I can spare it
   
2. Attacking WK - razing Ahrpetr and his Life mana, for instance, or maybe even the east coast
   
3. Razing the Remnants area - I want to take this area from Thoth, refound its cities in a more sea-friendly fashion, but I'll start by just trying to clear him out
   
4. Supporting Nyktorion. Apparently he's having significant issues with Cultists, Frigates, and water-walking Eidolons
   
5. The main event - defend and/or expand up my peninsula, killing as much Thoth stuff as I can, taking it for my own, etc. I'm hoping to at least gain the Remnants area, the Heron Throne, and those cities directly on my border
   

Realistically, even with mostly writing off Nyktorion and Heisenberg to defend themselves with a little support, and putting harassing WK as lowest priority, this is still probably too much. But it's where I am diplomatically, and what I need to accomplish if I'm going to have odds of winning. So we'll give it the old college try .

One force multiplier that occurs to me is Raging Seas. How, exactly, does that work? Does it attack ships? Of course Thoth has mostly protected himself from it by mostly building inland, but perhaps an opportunity will present itself.

[Sareln]

Raging Seas: Bigger Better Tsunami which can kill. Cold Damage for those of you keeping track at home. Puts out fires too

Stats are Damage from 1 - 75 HP with no Cap.

[Mardoc]

Raging Seas: Bigger Better Tsunami which can kill. Cold Damage for those of you keeping track at home. Puts out fires too

Stats are Damage from 1 - 75 HP with no Cap.

Yes, but the manual says something about 'only tiles adjacent to coastal tiles'. Is that part true? Basically I'm wondering if I can use it to help clear out a Malakim navy, away from port.

[DaveV]

In my duel game against Bobchillingworth, I used Tsunami against a barb griffon in the middle of the ocean: link. I would expect Raging Seas to work the same way.

[Mardoc]

Smelting came in this turn, and revealed that I do have iron. Three more turns until Iron Working, then science goes off for a while.

Nyktorion apparently made a major mistake; Thoth just researched Sorcery and immediately Blinded most of Nyktorion's army. It's not dead yet, but I may have less of an ally than I expected. I think I'm committed now, though, and there are 2-3 cities I can hit turn 1 of a war, without Thoth being sure that I'm in the area. Nyktorion phrased it something like '

Well - plus, 2-3 cities I can hit with Snowfall/Tsunami on the first turn of a war, which is the really important detail. Immediately put a Zealot in there, and my army is safe in the countryside right afterwards. I think I'm going to have to play this guerilla-style - hide in the countryside, just enough force to control the cities, and strike from ambush. Which means I really need to get some Hawks in the air, to have the info I need.

[Mardoc]

Ok, time to start hashing out war plans, or at least figuring out what I want to do and trying to balance my army's positioning and composition so it can do it.

Taking the fronts in order:
1. Defense of Heisenberg - mostly Heisenberg's problem, but I will provide Hawks and Assassins and maybe other stuff if I can spare it

Here, I'm planning to ship him two Assassins and probably 2 Hawks (fortunately those can come back if needed). Ideally at least one unit will have Esus and I can spread it around while I'm over there for the gold benefit. Priority 1 is finding Corlindale, Priority 2 is getting an Assassin to him. Unless he has Guardsmen, I think he should be automatic first target, and have no chance at fighting (Str -). If he's protected, then things get a little harder (to say the least!). Probably would have to coordinate with Sheaim - Royal Guards are likely to be #1 defenders anyway, so could be collateralled down and hit by summons, before I go in. Aside from that, just fly the Hawks and ship Nicolae screenshots every turn. Sadly, WK is between us and I can't just gift the Hawks, but it'll be some info.

2. Attacking WK - razing Ahrpetr and his Life mana, for instance, or maybe even the east coast

Totally dependent on what happens elsewhere. I'll worry about it later.

[SIZE="4"]Vs. Thoth:[/SIZE] Well, as has been clearly demonstrated, he who hits first, wins. As has also been demonstrated, God is on the side of the big battalions. So I need to make sure I'm always the one hitting first. How? Well - I need an information advantage, which Hawks + Nox Noctis ought to grant. Ideally my units only show themselves after killing something, and hopefully not even then for long. I know that Thoth can't directly attack invisible units unless he can see them, which Dave just confirmed is impossible inside my borders. Can he indirectly attack them? Which magics hit invisible units? I'm guessing it's the ones that hit every unit within range, like Ring of Flames/Tsunami, and not the ones that hit only enemies or only one tile, like Blinding light. I would appreciate confirmation here.

I also need a mobility advantage. At sea, this is straightforward - I need to be mostly ship-based, and force him to be waterwalking or nothing. He's only got three coastal cities; if I can capture or raze them all, then hunt down whatever remains, I can do this. Frankly, if he's only waterwalking and I've got Cultists in ships, I don't fear anything he can throw at me, since I'll always have time to react with Tsunamis.

On land, it's trickier. I think the key will be to have a lot of combat workers and road everything. Similarly, do my best to keep everything within my borders, and/or a chariot fight.

Now, for the details:

3. Razing the Remnants area - I want to take this area from Thoth, refound its cities in a more sea-friendly fashion, but I'll start by just trying to clear him out

Why? First...it's a port. Right next to all kinds of Lanun targets. I can't tolerate that.

Second...it's a city. Production, gold - war supplies. I can kill it, therefore I should.



As you can see - I can hit Golden Cabin turn 0 of the war, with Cultists, and presumably with as large a fraction of my army as I can muster. Ideally this would be Stygians on ships. Collateral him down to 25% health (3 Cultists should do the trick), and then there's nothing he can do but die. I will attempt to retreat to my borders afterward (why they need to be shipboard stygians) so he can't possibly retaliate against anything but the unit who goes ashore to raze it. I can't hold this area, though, not yet. Partially because I can't hit Golden Bunkhaus easily. Still, if I can make sure there are no Malakim ships here, a 4-tile moat ought to be enough. Eidolons, Stygians, and Cultists are all 1 movers that can't benefit from Haste, so max of 2 moves, maybe 3 if he's unlocked Mobility II. That means if he wants to attack, he has to spend 1 turn in the middle of the ocean, where I will have Cultists. Honestly, I don't expect him to try. He might send a Cultist or two to Tsunami my workboats, though, and I should make sure to punish him by killing them if he does.

Finally, once I'm mostly done here, go Tsunami the sheep from Golden Bunkhaus, just because I can. Or else take the fleet and go bother WK with it. And always, always, if Thoth gets coastal with anything, kill it.

4. Supporting Nyktorion. Apparently he's having significant issues with Cultists, Frigates, and water-walking Eidolons - I'll come back to this

5. The main event - defend and/or expand up my peninsula, killing as much Thoth stuff as I can, taking it for my own, etc. I'm hoping to at least gain the Remnants area, the Heron Throne, and those cities directly on my border



I just founded OO temple in Gobo; this should push the border at least one square, so that both these cities are within 2 squares of my border. With 4 workers each, plus an adept for springing a tile en route to Golden Tipi, I can hit either or preferably both cities in one turn from within my borders. I need to take out Golden Wigwam if I'm going to have a chance to hold the treaty city. I want to take out Tipi as well, for some defensive depth. Ideally, my stack will be Hemah + 1 Stygian/defender + a little extra + 4 Workers + 1 Zealot for Wigwam, and a couple catapults + 1 Stygian/defender + a little extra + 4 workers + 1 Zealot for Tipi. I would like to take out Thoth's fort, as well, or make it my own, but so far I don't see how to do that. Immediately after taking these, my adepts will fan out and Spring everything I can touch - I'm only safe to try this because of Nox Noctis, and only if Thoth doesn't have a force in range to reconquer in a turn, but denying him mobility and gaining it for myself are both important goals here. I'm not sure if I'll have the force to take both of these turn 0 of the war. Ideally, I would, to make the fighting in his lands (with my culture), but we'll have to see what I can assemble.

West coast - as soon as I can, I need to at least get a naval force out here, and work on clearing any and all Malakim ships or water walkers. I would like to take Golden Shanty for my own - Heron Throne, lots of mined hills, fish - this is a nice nice Lanun city. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure I can't keep it, at least early. I'm still debating what to do here - just raze it, and live without the Throne? That would make sense from a rule the seas perspective. I can always refound later for the rest of the benefits. I need to deny Thoth fleets, I really do. But I want it! .

If I'm clever, I ought to be able to raze this city, too, in one turn. Still thinking about what's appropriate here.

North coast:



There are several focuses here. First, Nyktorion's apparently been having a lot of trouble with water-walking Eidolons (ex-cultists), and ships. I ought to clear Thoth out. Second, there are two coastal cities, which I want to raze so that Thoth can't challenge me at sea anymore. Third - one of those is Golden Igloo, the home of the Mines of Gal-Dur. Taking it would deny Thoth Iron for at least long enough to research up to Iron working. I'm 90% sure that I need to raze this city, but there's a 10% chance I can gift it to Nyktorion and have him hold it. Regardless, I'm 100% sure I can't hold it myself.

Edit: On further thought - giving it to Nyktorion is a ridiculous idea. I want his help dismantling Thoth, but that doesn't mean I trust him or expect to remain allies much past the war. I've got a significant tech lead and GNP advantage over Nyk, he just damaged his economy with March of the Trees - why should I help him gain spoils? If I need his help to take Igloo, or he does it on his own, that's one thing, but otherwise, I should definitely raze it. Then I don't have to worry about Thoth retaking it, either.

So...if I can pull all of that off, I would have a net result of razing 4 Malakim cities and taking 2. That would be a devastating blow to Thoth. It would not finish him, but there's no point in planning beyond what I can see. It would establish me as the firm ruler of the seas. I still need to think about what it'll take to accomplish all this, though, and what/how to back off from attempting, at least early.