[SPOILERS]Acrid Pinot and other Pindicator anagrams

[NobleHelium]

I think the 9h/t number is the more accurate estimate. For one thing, we don't actually have the option of working grass mines instead of the farms, because there's only one mineable tile. The opportunity cost would likely be working a lot of coast. Naturally we can work workshops later, and I imagine we would abandon the whipping scheme when we've gotten to that point. Is that far enough away that building the Globe is worth it? I'm not so sure now.

Ideally we get it up to a whip every 4 turns, which doesn't look quite possible with the first jungle city we have planned. There is a spot at the beginning of our arm that can get two fish and one banana, however...

Let's look at food surplus and minimum ideal size to run specialists during GA. These numbers are assuming that we'll continue working the good tiles of each city during the GA.
1) NHL: 7f, 5 good tiles. So let's say 4 specialists + 5 tiles = minimum size 9.
2) RUO: 10f, 6-7 good tiles. So theoretically we'd want size 12. That's not going to happen since we're busy building the NE instead of growing, so whatever.
3) SBT: 6f, 7 good tiles. Size 10. I doubt we'll run specialists here.
4) HT: 7f, 3 good tiles. Size 7. Not sure if we can whip the ziggurat and still make this size.
5) CO: 11f?, 5 good tiles. Size 11. We can probably make this if we steal the corn from CM soon.
6) SR: 9f, indeterminate number of good tiles if we finish Moai. Lots of food here, we may run specialists if we have the potential for growing into unhappiness. Otherwise I'd rather take the 2h per tile here.
7) AWB: 6f, 1 good tile. Maybe a candidate for the first GP, but we'll probably just work coast.

The other cities have not enough surplus or are unlikely to be in consideration. So it looks like the best candidates for GPs are NHL, HT, CO. RUO will produce them as a matter of course and SR may or may not want to produce them depending on the happiness situation. Could we produce 4-5 GPs in 12 turns of GA? Hmmm.

[SevenSpirits]

I think the 9h/t number is the more accurate estimate. For one thing, we don't actually have the option of working grass mines instead of the farms, because there's only one mineable tile.

Sure, but you don't need that particular city to produce all those hammers. You only considered it for that role because of globe theater in the first place. Financial coast is comparably efficient to grass mines overall. And with colossus it's clearly better.

[T-hawk]

I don't know how you're calculating this, but I don't buy it. Globe isn't magically producing hammers. If Globe is letting you whip about once every 5t instead of once every 10t then at best it's producing 90h every 10t, or 9h/t. That's fairly bad for a 350h building.

Globe is for drafting. A good Globe city drafts once every 2t or less instead of once every 10t. With rifles, that's 440h every 8t, 55 hammers per turn.

[NobleHelium]

Heh, Ichabod updated. Did he build the Pyramids?

[novice]

Noble, I don't see how you can say the RB meta doesn't favor drafting - drafting is incredibly powerful. But with the happy-rich (too rich oftentimes) maps of RB, you don't always need a draft camp. We used drafting without the GT with great effect in 23, as did Locke in PB4 IIRC. In 13, spaceman and I used a draft camp which also worked great, that game was an exercise in overkill, though. SPI helps, of course, but if you're doing a huge buildup like in 13 you should just commit to Nationhood. If you want to be fancy you can even run Caste on the side and rely on drafts instead of emergency whips. (Although slavery for whipping siege and cavalry is the way to go if you mean serious business.)

Fake edit: Rereading, I see you don't dismiss drafting but the idea of a draft camp. Well we're in agreement then - the utility of a draft camp depends on the happiness situation and on how many turns you plan to spend in Nationhood.

[pindicator]

Well, I'm less gung-ho about Globe now. And Noble seems to be okay with it now.

I still like the idea of it: getting one city to do the majoirty of the military dirty work, whether that's whipping or drafting, freeing up the other cities to stay focused on infrastructure. We could also use Globe as a way to increase our hpt later when we want to make a push: Noble, I know we've chatted about hitting Ichabod with cuirs. I guess the question is if globe would speed that attack up. If we don't think it will then maybe it isn't doing.

[Commodore]

Well, I'm less gung-ho about Globe now. (..)

Why? This is a game, if:

I still like the idea of it: (...)

Means you find it a fun idea, I say go for it.

[pindicator]

Yeah, but the No Fun police are out in force.

[NobleHelium]

Clearly I should have used those GGs to make those C4 tanks roll off the line then...ahem.

Anyway, I don't really know. I think teching Drama before Philosophy is probably a good idea and we can go with that and decide whether Globe is actually worth building later. A big cop out I know, but we'll probably want to build a few theatres if nothing else.

novice, those examples you cite are actually pretty old. I consider 23 to be still relevant, but the others not nearly as much. But yeah, current RB games generally run with a lot higher overall happiness (and to a lesser extent food) than the games of yesteryear.

[SevenSpirits]

I don't know how you're calculating this, but I don't buy it. Globe isn't magically producing hammers. If Globe is letting you whip about once every 5t instead of once every 10t then at best it's producing 90h every 10t, or 9h/t. That's fairly bad for a 350h building.

Globe is for drafting. A good Globe city drafts once every 2t or less instead of once every 10t. With rifles, that's 440h every 8t, 55 hammers per turn.

I know. I was responding to Pindicator's post talking about building Globe for slaving. In fact I said it was for drafting later in the same post.