[SPOILERS] Back to Basic - Mardoc plays Augustus of China

[Mardoc]

Had a turn this morning. Didn't find anything interesting; was hoping for food by stone, but so far, nada. Just the wheat, if I steal it from the silver. I put a turn into Mysticism, but hadn't yet done any analysis. We'll see, through this post, whether I should stay the course or divert to pick up Wheel.

So...I have stone and copper both fairly convenient, and food is not convenient. I want a reliable border popper, therefore, so that I can plant cities for both food and resources, instead of having to pick. As Industrious, I also want to aim for stone and copper wonders.

Current wishlist:
Religion in city 2
Stonehenge
Oracle
Colossus
Pyramids

That's...ambitious. Probably too ambitious, really. Let's give up on Stonehenge, and aim for Hinduism rather than Buddhism, to make is slightly more realistic. Religion and henge are probably duplicated effort, after all, and we know Mr. Charismatic over there would really like a henge.

Some input numbers: 60 beakers for Mysticism, 96 for Meditation, 120 for Polytheism, 70 for Wheel.

Just finished the worker. Currently have either 2/1/0 pigs or 1/2/0 copper or 3/0/1 floodplains to work, plus 2/2/1 city tile and 8 Palace commerce. Pigs become 5/1/1, copper becomes 1/5/0, when improved. 22 food to grow, which is top priority. Looks like we'll work the floodplains until the Pigs are ready, swap to those.

I'm not sure how long improvements take on Normal. Pasture and Mine are both 3 turns in FFH/Quick, so I'll assume 5 turns. Plus 1 to move onto the hill.

That means 5 turns of Floodplains, 2 turns of Pigs, followed by growth at 25/22 food. That puts us at 70 base beakers. Also 16 hammers, which isn't enough for anything to complete.

If we start a settler immediately, that's 4 turns of pigs/forested plains hill before our next improvement finishes. 3 food/6 hammers = 12 foodhammers/turn equals 48/100 into settler. Then swap to the bronze mine for 4 food/8 hammers = 16 foodhammers. Settler can be done in four more turns - 150 base beakers - which is one turn away from Polytheism. That's a little early. Settler will take at least three turns to walk to the site - and that's with no escort. Could delay it by slipping in our revolt to Slavery, and a turn or two of Wheel.

That puts us, 15 turns from now, with a settler, size 2 cap, one worker, and one warrior. I need to check if barbs are on, because that feels extremely risky to me. I want that early city, but I'm afraid it won't really be worth doing that fast.

If I delay, it would be to slip in ahead of the settler a finished warrior, The Wheel, and maybe a second worker. Those are what will come right away afterward if I don't delay, as well .

Assuming we're on track for religion, I think the first city will actually be the northern one, with sheep/gold settled second.

Note: all the above is still tentative. New discoveries, particularly neighbors or barbs, will change things. And I can be talked out of it, probably .

[Commodore]

It's actually 4 to mine, 4 to pasture. 5 to farm normally, although desert (FP) takes 6.

And a warrior is 15 hammers; so completeable.

[Commodore]

Ah, and definitely do want to slip in the Slavery revolt while in transit, usually.

[Mardoc]

It's actually 4 to mine, 4 to pasture. 5 to farm normally, although desert (FP) takes 6.

And a warrior is 15 hammers; so completeable.

That's all good news. I guess the .67 rounding is how that comes out to 3 turns Quick. That makes most of my numbers wrong , but by making the settler come out sooner. Which makes the balance between settler and Polytheism work better.

Still need to decide if city 2 is worth having with only one worker on hand. I suppose it might be, if Roy goes into a worker after the settler.

[Krill]

The main considerations about whether you want 1 or 2 workers prior to a settler are about how many improvements (and forests chopped) you need at the capital (and when you plan to build the second worker). Tech path matters as well: if you don't have Wheel for roads then it's not like you want that second worker to road to the new city site, is it?

[Mardoc]

Alright, try this again with the actual worker timings.

That means 4 turns of Floodplains, 2 turns of Pigs, followed by growth at exactly 22 food. That puts us at 60 base beakers. Also 14 hammers, which isn't enough for anything to complete. Work the Pigs/ forested plains hill from here for a while. Take one turn to finish the warrior, 70 base beakers, and 5 overflow hammers (which become seven with Imp).

Then start the settler. That's 2 more turns of pigs/forested plains hill before our next improvement finishes. 3 food/6 hammers = 12 foodhammers/turn equals 31/100 into settler. Then swap to the bronze mine for 4 food/8 hammers = 16 foodhammers. Settler can be done in five more turns - 140 base beakers - which is two turns away from Polytheism. Settler will take at least three turns to walk to the site. Add in the Slavery revolt, though, and the timing works out pretty well, I think.

That puts us, 14 turns from now, with a settler, size 2 cap, one worker, and two warriors.

Yeah, as long as barbs are off or tame, I like this better with the real numbers. And it doesn't account yet for the worker doing anything after mining the copper. If I chop a forest, I can save two turns on the settler production.

On Krill's point - yes, tech path and worker plans have to go hand in hand. If I delay for a second worker, I have to get Wheel done before the workers get bored - probably before Mysticism even.

[Commodore]

North vs. south site, either way worker will probably be improving things for the next city. If south, then Durkon(?) can work the copper mine while the worker farms a FP for the capital; if north, worker might want to mine or chop/mine something for the new city.

[Mardoc]

North vs. south site, either way worker will probably be improving things for the next city.

That would likely make the most sense, sure, give the new city a tile worth working. At *some* point we need to chop those forests into something useful, but I suppose that can be settler 2 or the Oracle.

You'd have me farm the floodplains? I thought rule of thumb was to cottage those suckers?

I suppose there's nothing wrong with redeveloping it later...

Durkon(?)

Actually, if I'm moving it to grab the gold, it'll have to be Haley instead.

Edit: and what the heck was I thinking, wanting to grab the site reliant on Fishing/Sailing before we have those techs, while delaying the site that mostly needs Mining/Animal Husbandry for its awesomeness?

[retep]

I'm confused, this game in normal speed, right? If the answer is yes, why is Krill given advice like this is quick?

[Mardoc]

I'm confused, this game in normal speed, right? If the answer is yes, why is Krill given advice like this is quick?

Yes, Normal.

I can think of two possibilities:
- He just assumed Quick because it's a PBEM
- He wants me to actually think for myself, rather than follow directions like an automaton

I think the general ideas will still work with everything 1.5x the cost, but I can't follow his specific numbers.

Edit: no matter whether it was an error from Krill or on purpose, it doesn't really matter. It's my game, I'm the one who's responsible for it. I'm happy to listen to advice, but at the end of the day if I mess up, it's on my head.