[SPOILERS] - Available to new home, slightly used civ, 1 previous owner

[Krill]

An alternate strategy that I tried (but knew it wouldn't work) was to go PRO and Pottery first, which requires one of Babylon, Sumeria or Egypt, and the aim is to build a pottery whilst the worker hooks the first food. In certain circumstances it's possible to finish the granary and save half the box at size 1, so the amount of saved food from teh granary gives a stupendously fast start.

Here, it doesn't work due to the lack of a 3 hammer tile, and first ring pig will give greater food if I hook it immediately. IMO, I'm not looking at using PRO in this game unless PRO/Inca is left to me and a bunch of other leaders also fall. I seriously doubt that happens as I don't see Joao being picked, nor Germany, Russia or Khmer.

[Krill]

Comparing Charismatic to Expansive though, to enable the capital to size at size 7 compared to size 5, the first settler for Cyrus would come out the same time as the second settler from Joao despite both being IMP, simply because Cyrus is behind on growth and uses more chops to try and catch up. I really don't see any point in picking Cyrus as I believe EXP has a much better midgame and trust my ability to snowball EXP to a better position than CHM.

Picking Washington instead of Joao, so keeping EXP the same, has similar issues. After the second worker is completed, bnoth workers then chop forests that finish a settler for Joao, for Washington the settler would still be 3-4 turns from being finished, essentially requiring a revolt and whip to finish the first settler the same time as Joao and then unable to complete a second. Considering that additional growth is required to make use of the 6th and 7th pop in the capital (worse if I can find happy) then I don't think CHM is going to help expansion at all and I'd have to leverage it mid and late game. This I'm less sure about because I think IMP has a crap mid game and no late game, but I'm gambling on the land being good. The better the land, the more improtant it is to get it improved quicker and the more important that IMP is for that.

So I think I still prefer IMP to CHM. Still going to have to think about how I value IMP to ORG though. I think it may still come down to what I have available to me.

[Krill]

Looking through the traits a bit more, there are some things that stick out:

FIN is potentially a good late game trait for me here, because with a capital like this I know I have an awesome production city, so all my other cities can eat the whip nerf because I know I can build settlers from here. Workers can still be whipped elsewhere. The capital only has 8 river tiles but I'm not going to cottage it. That means early game I don't value FIN. I doubt I'm going to pick FIN, but I don't see anything that turns me off it.

CRE could theoretically work, but I think the hammers saved on each settler from IMP will make the hammer saving from a monument not worth it.

PHI can suck a dick.

AGG I'm not picking unless Zulu but at that point I probably have to pick Shaka of Zulu if it's available. Cheap Barracks to pop borders to allow me to skip Myst is actually huge (no pun intended) on this map. Just I played it in PB15 and don't want a reprisal of that game. The help with lowering costs would be enough for me to drop IMP with this capital, as teh border pops makes it easier to plant for happiness and get it hooked.

Which leaves ORG as the last trait I would to play. I wanted to combo HRE and ORG, but with the starting techs almost forced on me, I am kinda losing interest in ORG. Maybe Sumeria would make me pick it and I could play a different opening? Might go and check that now...

[Krill]

Nope, Hunting/Mining is mandatory for this start, Zulu being the only exception due to Hunting/Agriculture and solid UB. The importance of chopping can't be understated, it gets out the second worker and then settler more than 6 turns ahead of pretty much every other double worker opening for an EXP leader.

Which drops the civ choice down quite nicely. Ethiopia, Khmer, Germany or Russia are the only civs that start Hunting/Mining.

• Ethiopia, Stele (Monument, 30H, +25% culture); Oromo Warrior (Musket, S9, 80H, starts with D1, D2, 1 free strike, immune to free strikes)
  
• Khmer, Baray (Aqueduct, 100H, +1 food); Ballistaphant (War Elephant, S7, 60H, targets mounted units first out of cities)
  
• Russia, Research institute (University, 200H, +1 free scientist); Cossack (Cavalry, S15 120H, +50% against mounted)
  
• Germany, Assembly Plant (Factory, 250H available at Steam Power, +4 Engineer slots); Kanone (Cannon, 80H)
  

Out of those choices, I've played Russia in PB15 but not used UB or UU, Ethiopia has a monument UB so I won't take it on principle and Khmer is just boring. I think I'd be quite happy to take Germany though with IMP and a cottage cheese strategy as cheaper units would be nice at that point...especially if I had a rush buy economy. The earlier Factory is quite nice as well and would synergise with EXP/ORG to deal with the unhealthiness and to make it cheaper. Steam Power only needs Chem and Replaceable Parts, as opposed to have to research Steam Power plus Constitution, Corporation and Assembly Line for a further 27K adjusted beakers in costs.

So in a choice between Zulu and Germany, I think I'd pick Joao of Germany, Shaka of Zulu and Mehmed of Germany depending on what options I had. I still want EXP, the two turn headstart is nice but I'm still mainly picking it for the mid game power.

[Dreylin]

So what happened to Germany and the Hunting/Mining mandatory start?

[Krill]

I found a way to make the start work with just Hunting. Specifically, I have to go Mining>BW>Agri and the worker pastures the pig, then mines the hills 44 and 2 of the capital. The capital goes worker>warrior>build something for a single turn>finish warrior and worker at size 3. The workers then both chop hill forests to get a settler out eot T27. I overflow enough to finish a third worker, or to dump into a settler which would finish eot T31 naturally, or start to grow and use a single chop, both mines and a forest (starving at -1fpt) to finish the settler eot T31 anyway. Or just whip it for 1 pop immediately.

I can still settle to split off the pig immediately to a second city, in which case I put the capital onto both mines and a grass forest and build a 5 turns worker. Ideally I get the rice hooked immediately after this but it's difficult. I basically have to hope that I have a second city site that needs Hunting to hook the food. If that's the case, I'm fine. Nothing else works.

The upside, is that I get another mid and late game boost from Rathaus. I really considered Mehmed hard, but in all honesty I think that picking up HRE gives me enough saved gold that I'm willing to forgo ORG (although Mehmed of HRE would have been my dream pick before I saw my start). I also screw over wetbandit and yuris for picking ORG and all the other court house civs have gone already. Is it worth it? Probably not, and I'm already kinda regretting it. But that damned rice is just too far away to easily hook.

[Krill]

The fuck is going on with this snakepick. Mehmed of Zulu?

[Krill]

Called it, and Seven can confirm that I predicted this from the starting screenshot prior to placing the settler, my start position is basically that of Imhoteps in PB1, moved 4 tiles north.

[Krill]

This is interesting. Fishing has a good taste to it for once, I can settler 6669 of IotS and pick up a sheep. Probably going to move the scout 77 then 41 onto what looks like a hill 88 of the crab. That crab could be settled for in tones of ways, but 9 of the crab is interesting to share a ton of hills with IotS, along with a bunch of forest chops.

I can have both settled before T35.

[Krill]

So...would people prefer this:




and this




or this:




and this




Interesting comparison, right?