November 7th, 2018, 07:35
Posts: 3,882
Threads: 26
Joined: Apr 2013
I agree with Mardoc, it's hard to see when they start to take cities and profit from their aggression. I think they're best off letting superdeath settle one city out but then use skirms to block off the south and settle strong defensible cities. The 3rd ring land between them is crap and not worth fighting over anyway.
Besides which, superdeath's previous performances point towards a very stubborn defender, but someone who you can outbuild, which pushes for a more long term approach.
November 8th, 2018, 11:08
Posts: 23,409
Threads: 132
Joined: Jun 2009
They profit from the aggression once they start settling and working land that they otherwise could not, if they did not choke.
That could be as soon as the third city. Hell, they could even cram down the second city on the spot they marked for Superdeaths second city: as CRE it will hold it's border. I'm really not seeing the downside to teching Archery and spending the extra 10 hammers on a skirm when they have a 2 hammer plant, 1/3 ivory and a plains cow. It's at most an extra 2 turns worth of production compared to building a random warrior for a humongous payback.
Also: Why does everyone comment on the map having sparse food when they asked for a random map? Did they think that map generator would just magically double the number of food resources because it's a PB game?
Current games (All): RtR: PB80 Civ 6: PBEM23
Ended games (Selection): BTS games: PB1, PB3, PBEM2, PBEM4, PBEM5B, PBEM50. RB mod games: PB5, PB15, PB27, PB37, PB42, PB46, PB71. FFH games: PBEMVII, PBEMXII. Civ 6: PBEM22 Games ded lurked: PB18
November 13th, 2018, 18:14
Posts: 3,882
Threads: 26
Joined: Apr 2013
I think superdeath needed to go archer before settler, and settle one of the plains hills to the East(which one depends on the skirms showing up). I honestly think he's fine in that spot to just cede the rest of the mainland and go exploring the seas.
Archer before settler is slowing yourself down compared to everyone else, so the temptation to risk it is understandable, but he really looks screwed now. His snowball is screwed up as the settler sits around and Comm can camp on the hill before his archer can. Giving up the outer ring of cities is fine IMO, because that land sucks, but losing the pig/wheat/copper city is a real killer.
November 13th, 2018, 18:47
Posts: 2,999
Threads: 49
Joined: Mar 2004
That plan might work, but seems to really want SD to tech hunting-archery-BW rather than hunting-BW-???. If you tech BW first, the temptation to risk being able to settle for copper and build axes is strong. Getting archery first would have meant being able to build archers while teching BW, rather than building warriors as he wound up doing. So he would have needed to commit to this plan by T9 when he started BW, i.e. before he saw Comm tech archery and knew for certain a choke was coming.
Not impossible. SD knew the potential for a choke was there and had discussed it in his thread. But it seems like a tall ask on SD's foresight to play that conservatively, and give up some growth potential for security, prior to Comm teching archery -- he doesn't seem to be very naturally inclined to caution.
November 13th, 2018, 22:18
(This post was last modified: November 13th, 2018, 22:18 by Lewwyn.)
Posts: 12,335
Threads: 46
Joined: Jan 2011
Technically he could have swapped away from BW as soon as he saw Com tech archery. Or even Archery after BW instead of sinking 3 turns into sailing.
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
November 13th, 2018, 22:58
(This post was last modified: November 13th, 2018, 23:05 by Zed-F.)
Posts: 2,999
Threads: 49
Joined: Mar 2004
Yes, technically possible to interrupt BW to get archers... though then they probably are still building at least 1 warrior before any archers can be built, as the first warrior completed when halfway through BW and they noticed Comm got archery. Probably at this point switching to archery doesn't seem faster to SD because he's half done BW already and won't be able to chop or slave the first archer if he switches before finishing BW (even though it is actually faster/safer b/c he doesn't need to settle copper.) Mentally this seems hard to make the call to switch horses mid-stream here because you'd feel pot-committed. That's why I think the most opportune moment to re-evaluate was actually before BW was started.
Archery after BW and then slave/chop an archer immediately at the cap still risks being too slow to defend the second city site. Better than getting sailing, sure, but everything that happened in the game still would have happened, and the first archer would be just coming out about now.
November 14th, 2018, 04:06
(This post was last modified: November 14th, 2018, 04:07 by Krill.)
Posts: 23,409
Threads: 132
Joined: Jun 2009
Archery is a really cheap tech though: it's the cheapest in the game at 40 base cost AND a 20% prerequisite bonus. It's cheaper than Fishing.
Anyway, if Commodore has the second half of the timer, superdeath has to keep a warrior on the pig, and one on the cow to stop Commodore moving the scout onto the resource and immediately retreating out of reprisal range. And he needs an archer and warrior for the capital. And he needs 3 archers for the settler escort. And once the skirm is in range he can't hold the resource tiles either except by threatening 4 archers to exchange for the choking units except Commodore doesn't need to ever attack those tiles so long as he has the scout (unless he is trying to farm XP?!)
I'm not sure if Sailing isn't the right move after all: Sail around the choke and settle on the copper and then Commodore has to spend time moving units to threaten the copper, which allows superdeath to reassert control over his capital and build an axe. Yes he needs Archery right now, but after that it seems smarter to get the galley than stack up on archers and try to force the way past.
Current games (All): RtR: PB80 Civ 6: PBEM23
Ended games (Selection): BTS games: PB1, PB3, PBEM2, PBEM4, PBEM5B, PBEM50. RB mod games: PB5, PB15, PB27, PB37, PB42, PB46, PB71. FFH games: PBEMVII, PBEMXII. Civ 6: PBEM22 Games ded lurked: PB18
November 14th, 2018, 07:29
Posts: 8,784
Threads: 40
Joined: Aug 2012
Does he need the pig-defender if the governor is turned on? I'm not sure how that works in pitboss.
Completed: RB Demogame - Gillette, PBEM46, Pitboss 13, Pitboss 18, Pitboss 30, Pitboss 31, Pitboss 38, Pitboss 42, Pitboss 46, Pitboss 52 (Pindicator's game), Pitboss 57
In progress: Rimworld
November 15th, 2018, 21:16
Posts: 12,510
Threads: 61
Joined: Oct 2010
(November 8th, 2018, 11:08)Krill Wrote: Also: Why does everyone comment on the map having sparse food when they asked for a random map? Did they think that map generator would just magically double the number of food resources because it's a PB game?
What else do they have to talk about at this stage? Its react to the map or radio silence, right? You'll note that commodeath have stopped focusing on that aspect since they have bigger concerns now...
EitB 25 - Perpentach
Occasional mapmaker
November 19th, 2018, 19:09
Posts: 12,335
Threads: 46
Joined: Jan 2011
So, I'm not sure what the plan is. Will superdeath walk the settler to the copper? Because he's stated he wants to settle on the hill that gets the copper/pig/wheat... in the second ring. That city isn't very fast to get up particularly in a choke and particularly for the copper he needs. Currently commicator has that beast skirm fortified on forest hill with a warrior. Is superdeath planning to try and dislodge it with the 3 archers?
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
|
