This Time for Sure: Mardoc reprises the Lanun

[Mardoc]

I think we'll have enough overflow beakers from HBR to do Trade in 2 turns.

We certainly do!

We also have found sheeps! and Marbles! And whales and furs! The islands are a veritable treasure-trove .



And I actually spent time on the micromanagement this turn, doing things like grabbing a cottage for Bilge, swapping Mizzenmast to max hammers and commerce, and verifying Poopdeck's plains mine is in operation. And turning on 'avoid growth' in three cities, coupled with trying to push all of them away from food.

My main debate - Topsail can either work an ungrown cottage, or a coast. I think we ought to work the coast for now, and swap to the cottage once we revolt to Foreign Trade.

Also, we've now likely gotten Cartography to a 1-turn tech. Do we delay the FT revolt until we can add City States to the mix?

Anyway, I haven't yet ended turn, if you have something to add, I'm all ears. I have only an hour or so before I need to pass it on and head to bed, though.

[Thoth]

We certainly do!

We also have found sheeps! and Marbles! And whales and furs! The islands are a veritable treasure-trove .

Wow! That's some nice land.

Our third island city could go 1 s of the Sheep picking up Sheep, Whales and Clams.

And I actually spent time on the micromanagement this turn, doing things like grabbing a cottage for Bilge, swapping Mizzenmast to max hammers and commerce, and verifying Poopdeck's plains mine is in operation. And turning on 'avoid growth' in three cities, coupled with trying to push all of them away from food.

I think "avoid growth" is a bad idea at this time. We don't have any cities in danger of growing past their happy caps (except for Mainmast, and we want it at size 15 regardless for the extra trade income).

My main debate - Topsail can either work an ungrown cottage, or a coast. I think we ought to work the coast for now, and swap to the cottage once we revolt to Foreign Trade.

Work the coast. It's better than a non-riveside cottage or hamlet. Even post-FT a cottage takes far too long to catch up to the coast tile.

Also, we've now likely gotten Cartography to a 1-turn tech. Do we delay the FT revolt until we can add City States to the mix?

I think we can afford to wait 10 turns for City States. We don't *need* the maintenance reduction right now and the extra hammers from GK are still very useful.

I'm thinking: Trade/Masonry/Hunting/Warfare/Cartography/Archery/Col/Construction/Sanitation. I'm not sure how fast we'll be teching, we might be able to slot Archery in before Warfare. And if we get close to unlocking FotT we can bump Warfare ahead of Hunting.

That gets us Marble, Furs, Deer, National Epic, FotT (if we can unlock it), Mil State/City States, Lumbermills, boosted chops for the forests we have to knock down, Archers, Org Courthouses, Bridges and chain irrigation and boosted farms.

After that.....not sure. Early run at IW is good (Boarding Parties, Shrine of the Champion, Naval Yards for the hammer boost to water tiles) but so is grabbing Philo/Mil strat for our Command Posts and possibly the Great Commander.

[Mardoc]

Our third island city could go 1 s of the Sheep picking up Sheep, Whales and Clams.

I'm pretty sure we can't actually use the whales until Optics, but that's still quite a strong site.

I'm going to loop the galley around the marble island and home for a settler, I think, but we want to explore enough to firm up a dotmap and a cove arrangement. We might need to slip in another galley between the settlers at Mainmast, unless one of the other coastal towns can build us one.

I think "avoid growth" is a bad idea at this time. We don't have any cities in danger of growing past their happy caps (except for Mainmast, and we want it at size 15 regardless for the extra trade income).

I think I'm more likely to accidentally grow than I am to forget I've turned avoid on. Granted, I'm aiming to pay enough attention that I do neither, but we won't want to grow these cities again until we acquire more happiness.

Work the coast. It's better than a non-riveside cottage or hamlet. Even post-FT a cottage takes far too long to catch up to the coast tile.

I suppose I can agree with this, at least in places where we have Sea Havens. By the time we want the cottage to become a town, we ought to have found or built some more happiness, and can work both.

I think we can afford to wait 10 turns for City States. We don't *need* the maintenance reduction right now and the extra hammers from GK are still very useful.

That's true, I was ignoring the God King benefits (including the boost to the gold we're acquiring in order to pay maintenance).

I'm thinking: Trade/Masonry/Hunting/Warfare/Cartography/Archery/Col/Construction/Sanitation. I'm not sure how fast we'll be teching, we might be able to slot Archery in before Warfare. And if we get close to unlocking FotT we can bump Warfare ahead of Hunting.

So that'll get us through the next 10 turns...


Ok, it might take a little longer. The one conspicuous absence from this path is anything that can control land against, oh, say, an Axe rush. Or a PZ rush. Not that I really fear one, but if someone intends mayhem, we might need to mix it up a bit.

That gets us Marble, Furs, Deer, National Epic, FotT (if we can unlock it), Mil State/City States, Lumbermills, boosted chops for the forests we have to knock down, Archers, Org Courthouses, Bridges and chain irrigation and boosted farms.

That's quite a list of prizes . And you haven't counted any of the unlocked buildings, units, nor the Sanitation food.

Ah...no Festivals? I think I'd slip it into the list, towards the end. Granted we don't yet have extra hammers, but eventually we'll want Markets and Carnivals.

After that.....not sure. Early run at IW is good (Boarding Parties, Shrine of the Champion, Naval Yards for the hammer boost to water tiles) but so is grabbing Philo/Mil strat for our Command Posts and possibly the Great Commander.

Really, it depends on our situation. If there's still immense open spaces between us and our neighbors, then we might slip in Currency, and/or a run up to Taxation. If we need to start thinking about military, OTOH, then Iron Working and Command Posts and up to Sorcery sounds like the right idea instead. And at some point we need to grab Optics/maybe more naval tech, to start on the 'rule the seas' project.

[Thoth]

I'm pretty sure we can't actually use the whales until Optics, but that's still quite a strong site.

Unless it's been changed in EitB, Whales are unlocked with Sailing. Which we already have.

I'm going to loop the galley around the marble island and home for a settler, I think, but we want to explore enough to firm up a dotmap and a cove arrangement. We might need to slip in another galley between the settlers at Mainmast, unless one of the other coastal towns can build us one.

We do want more exploration, but we've done enough scouting for at least 3 offshore cities + multiple mainland cities so it's a lower priority than settling some of those cities. We can shove a galley into Mainmast's queue after the second settler (though if we have a lot of hammer overflow a Zealot first would be a better option)

I think I'm more likely to accidentally grow than I am to forget I've turned avoid on. Granted, I'm aiming to pay enough attention that I do neither, but we won't want to grow these cities again until we acquire more happiness.

We ABSOLUTELY want Mainmast at size 15 (the other cities don't matter much one way or the other. An unhappy citizen or two isn't the end of the world).

Mainmast's trade routes at size 15 gets: +25% from connection to capital, +50% from Sea Haven and +25% from 5 pop points over 10.

that's a 100% boost to TR income, ie +5 commerce with FT (+20% for The Brewery). The "unhappy" 15th citizen is the equivalent to a 0f/0h/6c tile.

I suppose I can agree with this, at least in places where we have Sea Havens. By the time we want the cottage to become a town, we ought to have found or built some more happiness, and can work both.

Pre FT, a non Sea-haven coast > non-riverside cottage

Post FT a Sea Haven Coast > non riverside cottage.

Once we're getting close to Taxation for the +1 village/town commerce and the possiblity of Rep, that changes but right now it takes far, far too long for the cottage to catch up to the Coast.

(I'll leave the math as a homework exercise. )

That's true, I was ignoring the God King benefits (including the boost to the gold we're acquiring in order to pay maintenance).



So that'll get us through the next 10 turns...


Ok, it might take a little longer. The one conspicuous absence from this path is anything that can control land against, oh, say, an Axe rush. Or a PZ rush. Not that I really fear one, but if someone intends mayhem, we might need to mix it up a bit.

I did suggest we build a Stables for a reason.

That's quite a list of prizes . And you haven't counted any of the unlocked buildings, units, nor the Sanitation food.

Ah...no Festivals? I think I'd slip it into the list, towards the end. Granted we don't yet have extra hammers, but eventually we'll want Markets and Carnivals.

Yeah, Festivals at some point. We'll eventually want some Markets, but they're pricey in terms of hammers and it's not like we're short on commerce or anything.

TBH, I doubt we'll build even a single Carnival this game. We'll have many other more hammer effective solutions to unhappiness (unless the cost or benefit of Carnivals was changed? )

Really, it depends on our situation. If there's still immense open spaces between us and our neighbors, then we might slip in Currency, and/or a run up to Taxation. If we need to start thinking about military, OTOH, then Iron Working and Command Posts and up to Sorcery sounds like the right idea instead. And at some point we need to grab Optics/maybe more naval tech, to start on the 'rule the seas' project.

Yeah, it will depend on where we are at.

And I'm pretty much *always* thinking about the military side of things.

I'd like to get to Mil Strat soonish to get some CPs started. At 120 h a pop we won't be able to afford them everywhere, but we'll want some up ASAP in our hammer cities. Plus the Warfare line includes Philo to activate our (not yet settled) incense for a bit of extra happy.

[Thoth]

Turn has arrived.

Micro notes: Another cottage is finished in Mainmast. Work it in Mainmast (it's the only city that can). Topsail should take over working the cottage 1 NW of Mainmast.

Turn off avoid growth everywhere. None of our cities will grow into unhappiness before their current builds run out.

Mizzenmast needs to swap an Ocean tile for the newly finished riverside cottage, other than that it's fine for this turn. (next turn we need to adjust tile useage)

Bilge should take a Forested Grassland from Mizzenmast (who isn't working it) instead of the Citizen. Growth in two rather than 3 turns with the TY finishing at the same time.

Hold needed to swap to a Stables last turn, do it this turn.

Winch: Fine as is, but needs some worker love and a border pop (c'mon mr RNG, give us some religion spreads. )

Tiller: Looking good atm, wants the Wines improved and one (and only one) forest chopped into the Lighthouse (by preference) or the Sea Haven.

1t to Trade. Revolt next turn to FT/Undercouncil. We can afford the 1t delay on the settler in Mainmast.

A quick look at the F6 screen says we can Parkinize Masonry/Hunting/Archery and possibly Philo as our next 4 techs. Then Warfare/mil strat/Cartograpy (with a couple of turns in hand before we can swap civics.....and we might be a bit faster than I'm figuring with the trade route bonuses)

Tech pace just isn't going to be an issue for us. :hat:

[Mardoc]

Unless it's been changed in EitB, Whales are unlocked with Sailing. Which we already have.

Err, yes, that appears to be the case.

We ABSOLUTELY want Mainmast at size 15 (the other cities don't matter much one way or the other. An unhappy citizen or two isn't the end of the world).

Mainmast's trade routes at size 15 gets: +25% from connection to capital, +50% from Sea Haven and +25% from 5 pop points over 10.

that's a 100% boost to TR income, ie +5 commerce with FT (+20% for The Brewery). The "unhappy" 15th citizen is the equivalent to a 0f/0h/6c tile.

Perhaps I was unclear. I took this as given - I meant that I turned on avoid growth everywhere else, that would need three unhappy citizens to be equivalently effective.

TBH, I doubt we'll build even a single Carnival this game. We'll have many other more hammer effective solutions to unhappiness (unless the cost or benefit of Carnivals was changed? )

Depends on if we start capturing animals, or just fight barbs. Hunting is soonish, after all. I agree that 80h for one is overkill, given the other options.

And, exploration reveals that the Marble site is even richer than I'd realized! I might be turning Avoid Growth back off sooner than I'd expected.



I found all those micro notes except for having Mainmast swap to the new cottage. I'll do that next turn, right before the revolt, so I don't forget later.

Sadly, the RNG has given, now it takes away. No new spreads. I need the luck more over in 18, anyway .

[Thoth]

Cool wrt to Mainmast.

Um. I've been drastically underestimating our tech pace vs our ability to actually build stuff.

We may want Hunting/Archery before Masonry.

And it's worth considering moving the Marble offshore city 1 w onto the hills. We'll need to spend worker turns to improve and road the marble, but we'll pick up Crabs (scratch, scratch) in our second ring for some badly needed health .

In any event, the galley needs to head back home to pick up settler, worker and warrior for "city 3".

[Mardoc]

Um. I've been drastically underestimating our tech pace

NOT the worst problem we can have .

Although, if it gets too bad, we can turn the slider down and start cash-rushing stuff.

We may want Hunting/Archery before Masonry.

Y'know - I think you're right. Get lumbermills down, we won't have the marble city for, like, 3 turns That's plenty of time to research something else ahead of Masonry.

And it's worth considering moving the Marble offshore city 1 w onto the hills. We'll need to spend worker turns to improve and road the marble, but we'll pick up Crabs (scratch, scratch) in our second ring for some badly needed health .

Probably worth doing, yes. +2 in our coastal burgs!

In any event, the galley needs to head back home to pick up settler, worker and warrior for "city 3".

I was going to leave the warrior home, and handbuild him while we grow. You disagree? I suppose those hammers would be better into a Sea Haven/Lighthouse.

[Thoth]

NOT the worst problem we can have .

Yeah, I can think of many worse things to be concerned about.

Although, if it gets too bad, we can turn the slider down and start cash-rushing stuff.

Funny you should mention that....we'll be making a profit at our current slider setting of 70% (while making somewhere north of a buck fifty beakers per turn...).

That gives us the option of speeding up the Library and OO temple in Poopdeck (and hence letting us run more Sages to hurry the Academy in Mainmast).

Me likey.

Y'know - I think you're right. Get lumbermills down, we won't have the marble city for, like, 3 turns That's plenty of time to research something else ahead of Masonry.

:hat:

Probably worth doing, yes. +2 Health in our coastal burgs!

we will need to send 2 workers with that settler....OTOH, we're pretty much caught up on the mainland so we can afford the Worker turns.

I was going to leave the warrior home, and handbuild him while we grow. You disagree? I suppose those hammers would be better into a Sea Haven/Lighthouse.

Yup.

we have plenty of inland cities that can build garrisons, but we can't build Lighthouses/Sea havens for our new cities in our existing cities.

War toys can be built anywhere. Production/Food/Commerce enhancers can only be built locally.

[Mardoc]

It's a good thing I check the tracker every day. Apparently after all that effort yesterday, I forgot to actually pass the save onward