RB Pitboss #1 Spoilers - Joai of the Incans - Krill/Memphus

[Yazilliclick]

Sucks being out teched when you have 6 people to 5 and several of your non techers are at war with their people that are teching.

[Krill]

Depends. We're about to piss off regoarrarr enough that he might stop teching. Also, we do have an option...

We could ask what the teching speed of Munro and Shady is (that weird efficiency thing that Munro asked about, but also ask them to supply the base bpt and gpt for min/max science). We then start building wealth in some of our decent hammer cities, get the shrine (next turn woo), and we could have 2 good techers (Kodii and dsp are both as good as their best I think) and 1 mediocre techer, probably about as good as Broker is. Then we get the best 2 techers going for PP and Chem (and Lib Steel), and PP helps out everyone. The weaker one goes Nationalism.

If we don't have enough gold to do that at 100%, we start early and save gold. If the UTA decides to change tech and go for Lib, we let them waste a few turns on it, then take Nationalism, and then start the weaker techer on MT. If they don't, we get steel, or maybe even sci meth from Lib.

Ultimately, we are down guilds (and banking? Are any of them in merc?), and Nationalism. We are up Lib and almost all of gunpowder, and then with that we have another tech. We're not so much as being out teched as in a stalemate IMO. Sure, the UTA will be first to Econ, get Taj, which is possible 2 GAs, maybe 3 if someone gets MoM.

And I think that we are about to reach a slow part in the tech pace, as people start to expand again and the tech costs increase massively. Strategically it doesn;t really matter, but the tech order matters on a tactical level, we need to be able to make sure none of the NUTA is at danger of getting dismembered...which is us and Shady really. Which is why steel would be nice, cannons destroy everything so even HA can win, never mind Eles. All we need to make sure of is that Elkad doesn't go for Lib.

Also, we need to consider where IW is going to go. We could be as little as 12 turns from steel...I like LL, but that city would really need to grow asap (ie steal the corn from PP) and just work food tiles. Also, what about getting marble off someone, and shoving the NE into DD? We could get a load of Prophets and sell them to people. Sure, it weakens the NP...but getting the NE and NP in a weak city would take forever, and we could sell the Prophets for GS and Gspies, and the output of hte priests is better than the output of either of hte above, really.

[Yazilliclick]

Long chat with Munro. I think he'll make a nice ally on that border provided he's not going to stab us in the back. Sounds like he may be eyeing Imo's lands too.

Munro
me: Hey Munro
Munro: Hey Yaz
me: I've managed to readjust some things and will have a missionary pumped out to gift to you next turn. Will need to move it through my territory first though which will take a few.
Munro: great - thanks
which religions do you have?
I checked and all I have at the moment is christianity
me: Tao
Munro: do you want me to return the favour?
do you have any other religions you can also share in due course?
me: I think we have one more somewhere I'd have to check, it may be christianity though.
Have you seen the tech emails Krill has been sending to NUTA?
Munro: yes
me: Well he's come up with a bit of plan to maybe help us get a better tech advantage but it involves getting a third techer online and we need to know what your efficiency is and what your base bpt and gpt are
We'd switch some of our cities to produce wealth to help fund this idea.
Munro: sure, I can check
give me a couple of minutes
me: yeah np
Munro: although I think it is a mistake to mess around too much with liberalism in a MP game
is it possible to bulb liberalism?
me: It's possible I believe
Munro: still there?
me: yuppers
Munro: hi
do we need research visiblity on anyone?
I have it on broker, but have lots of EP in reserve
I coudl get vis on any of the others in about 7-8 turns
who should I switch to?
me: hmm not sure, one sec.
Munro: shadeyforce is brian sharkey right?
me: Yup
Munro: he can see elkad
me: Can you put yours against Lins?
Munro: looks like imhotep can see dan
I can see broker already
that just leaves sunrise and lins
me: Yeah don't think sunrise is doing much other than supplying units to some people.
I've got mine against him but he's got his against me and I don't put out much.
Lins that is.
Munro: well, lins are giving 50gpt to broker
so probably not worth seeing their research
sunrise might be a better target
if he is feeding gold to their researchers he is being slightly more subtle about it
although not much.. he is generating 103 gpt
he might be doing binary research of course
doesn'
me: hmm possible
Munro: doesn't sound like it matters much either wya
me: Probably not, I doubt either would be a likely researching for them. Plus that'd mean 4/5 of them researching.
Munro: map swap?
me: btw we also have hinduism in a city on the far side
Munro: cool
me: er actually on the side you're on
Munro: you have an insane amount of available land still open
me: Lots of barren land yeah
The barbs love it
Munro: replaceable parts and windmills should make that very productive
almost all grassland by the looks of things
me: it's a pretty good mix of plains, hills and grassland.
Lot of tundra though in other spots
Munro: looks pretty good though
you definitely still need that rice spot by our border?
I didn't realize how much space you still had to your north and east, but things are pretty cramped down here
we agreed it's yours if you still want it but given how big you are already it might be a nice gesture
the gold all goes to the same place anyway
me: Well I expect you're still going to want to squeeze two cities in there if you had it wouldn't you?
Munro: I would probably get 3 cities in there if you werent' going to settle it
the rice, the fish and a grasslands city
me: Man you must really want to get cozy
Munro: overlap is no bad thing sometimes
it is more efficient though when you've got better city spots elsewhere
and I don't have any
since the gold is all going to the same place anyway
I'd have thought you'd want to settle that sheep / fish / crab spot by the barbs
and other sites towards regoarr
me: You've got a decent pigs/grassland coastal on your other border.
Munro: yep - already got a settler on his way there
but that's the last one
me: That area is all up in contention actually, it's not mine
Munro: right - all the more reason to get there quickly
instead of settling on a border which is going to end up under alliance control regardless
me: Well there are advantages to that but disadvantages as well. That's three enemies there to piss off and no allies close
It's already a pretty tense situation over there.
Munro: so you think it'd be better to let them grab the land instead?
me: Didn't say that
Munro: that doesn't sound like it would be in our interest
me: All I'll say is right now we're negotiating but I don't trust anybody and don't plan on letting anybody settle too close and I wouldn't be surprised if negotiations fell through
Munro: ok - fair enough
well, if you decide you can live without that rice site I could certainly put it to good use
and I don't have anywhere else to go so it'd be efficient use of land and hammers
me: If it were just lins and sunrise I wouldn't worry. But Lins + Sunrise + their biggest civ on my one border could hurt.
Munro: still better to take the land first
even if they end up attacking it'll cost them a lot more than 100 hammers to take it from you
since defending is a lot easier
so you'd still be better off than just letting them settle it without a fight
me: I'll tell you this though, how soon do you think you'd want to settle anything that would interfere with the spot that's already guaranteed me from our negotiations?
Munro: I won't
unless you let me have the spot altogether, I won't settle anything that overlaps with your planned BFC
which means I'll only put 1 city down there (by the fish)
me: Yeah I'm just wondering how close you are to settling there? I mean I'm willing to negotiate because you're a good ally and I like having a good player as a friend on at least one border.
Munro: on the fish?
me: In that region. I'd basically just like to put off negotiating for it for a little bit as things are sort of up in the air atm.
Munro: I'm going to put a city on the tile you suggested (2W 1N of the fish I think it is)
about 2 turns from now
it doesn't get the rice in its BFC so you shouldn't have any trouble claiming it when you get there
me: Is that where'd you place if I relinquished my claim?
Munro: yes, I'd put it there regardless
I'm going to run a specialist economy for a while so lots of overlap isn't going to be a big deal for me
me: OK so what, 15-25T after that would be about earliest for a location past there if it were yours?
Munro: but with overlap with my fish / coastal city I can fit 2 cities where you are planning to put 1
no, I'd settle the rice pretty much right away if you were going to let me have it
maybe 10 turns from now
then the 3rd city would go in when we get Replaceable Parts probably
me: hehe someone really wants that spot
Munro: so 15 -20 turns from now I guess
well, ruff kinda neglected his development
me: You noticed that eh?
Munro: I'd be making up for lost time
lol
he built lots of praetorians to give regoarr some free Great Generals
me: I hope he at least sent you a thank you note for all that.
Munro:
I'm expecting a big manilla envelope in the post
me: I'll 'sleep' on the settling issue but may want something in trade but will have to think on it.
Munro: fair enough
me: I'd certainly like to see you grow stronger but have to keep in mind that alliances always shift in this game unfortunately so just have to weigh things out.
Last thing I want is another regoarrarr on my other border (though he's almost to both of them )
Munro: well, we could always strengthen the terms of our nap in conjunction if you like
make the cancellation period longer - 25 turns or something
to give you stronger guarantees
me: Yeah maybe something like that, maybe military assistance if something flares up on the other side of me, maybe something else not sure. I'll think of something I think it's probably in our best interest to work out something for you to settle there.
Munro: yeah - I think so
it will help me, and it won't really hurt you since you have lots of of alternate spots to settle
so as long as I'm on your side it strengthens you too to have a slightly stronger ally (both literally and figuratively)
me: Yeah. Based on past performance I'm not expecting much from Imo and he's the only other ally near me really.
Speaking of which did you sign a NAP with him?
Munro: no
me: No response yet?
Munro: I haven't approached him yet.. I'm going to wait and see a bit longer
doesn't hurt to have 'preferred' allies sometimes
at the moment you're the only person I have a written agreement with
I expect our alliance to end up on top
me: Good to know
Munro: I don't know how it will break up if it does, but it wouldn't hurt to have some flexibility in the meantime
me: Yeah. Well the thing is if UTA gets weakened much, namely regoarrarr going down then pretty sure NUTA will be splitting as well because the map will change so much.
That said if he grows much more I'd expect things to change some as well.
I think UTA right now is somewhat built around him being their might.
And I expect he's probably throwing that weight around diplomatically on all his neighbours.
Munro: Maybe
I chatted to him a bit in-game
I didn't get the impression he's playing it that way
me: Well you have the advantage of not being his neighbour hehe
Munro: yep
me: Trust me, negotiations for that region on my border with him have been 'interesting' hehe.
me: Anyways I should get going, play my turn later. Missionary will be 3T getting to our border.
Cya
Munro: great - thanks
cya

Will post an update later.

Reminder to myself, need to send a message to regoarrarr and sunrise about settling negotiations.

[Yazilliclick]

Short chat with regoarrarr. He seemed to accept it but I got the impression he's happy for a delay as well or that he at least doesn't really care anymore (if he ever did) about the negotiations. Maybe he's planning something himself?

Dan Miller
me: Hey
Dan: hi
me: Running into any more barb trouble these days?
Dan: not too bad
trying to get a few sentries out too
me: Hopefully you have better luck with yours than mine heh
Do you have any settling agreements at all with sunrise in that region between us?
Dan: we've talked about it a bit
but nothing concrete
why?
me: Well I assume you have more a little bit more contact with him than I do.
me: As I said to you before I have an agreement but not really a concrete deal with him. But working through this stuff and seeing you taking some spots a bit further south in exchange for the island and a safe culture area around it I'm thinking maybe we should bring him in on these.
Just so we don't end up finally getting an agreement and then finding out it pisses him off.
Dan: yeah i think that makes sense
me: Do you think you could perhaps then bring it up with him and catch him up on the way we're leaning (I think) and get his thoughts? I know he was somewhat thinking of one city in the area but don't know his longer term plans.
And he may not be as willing to tell somebody in NUTA anyways.
Dan: ok
me: You don't have to pass his plans along to me but maybe just a sense of whether there could be complications.
Great
me: Was looking over the history of things earlier today and man I should have jumped off with you and some researchers when I was only one with philosophy lol
Could have caused some real damage around then
Dan: yeah
it is very interesting comparing yoru style to krill's
i've had more than one person comment to me that you're a bit less.... abrasive than him
anyway kids want to use the computer ttyl
me: Cya

Anyways I left it up to him to bring sunrise into the talks and to catch him up so that should buy us another day or two.

[Yazilliclick]

Vote time!

Stop the war on regoarrarr?
Yes
No
Abstain

hmmm this could change things.

[Krill]

I think that's an automatic no...

[Yazilliclick]

t138

Continued the worker plan for no man's land.

EE - The Dai Miao has been founded +15 gpt. Really need to get that market finished there and a courthouse wouldn't amiss either (8.04 maint). Need to get a worker there though as there are some unimproved tiles being worked now

JJ - Tweaked tiles a bit, it will now grow next turn as well as finish lightouse. Will have a forest cleared and mine built in 2T. Another forest cleared, mine built and cottage built in 3T.

II - Will grow next turn and finish courthouse (currently 7.95 maint)

NN - incense connected next turn.

MM - Grows in 2T, has a forest that will be chopped in 2T should be able to arrange for courthouse to be done in 3T (maint at 8.34).

AA - WE finished next turn. Grows next turn. If we're not going to have to fund a 3rd researcher maybe switch to hammers for a bit and get a market there? It's at 40 base C running food and commerce pretty much exclusively. Few other options of course.

LL - Grows next turn. Due to overflow and chopped forest will put 55H towards forge. With other forest being chopped in 2T should have forge in 3T I think.

DD - finishes temple next turn. At current rate 28 turns until next GP.

PP - Could use a real defender, stuck a WE there for now.

ZZ - settler in place to settle next turn.

I'll add that Lins has been building a LOT of roads near our border.

[Krill]

If there are unimproved tiles in EE, build a worker for a turn, then slave it for 2 pop and overflow into the building is was previously producing. Do this in ANY city that is working unimproved tiles.

Forum ate my edit, but the gist was, a market in AA after the next build finishes makes lots of sense.

Lib in DD, then get someone to gift us marble and build NE in 9 turns there. Aim is to sell GP to as many people as possible for other goodies.

Looks like we are going to wait a few turns and force Elkad to waste beakers on Lib, then just take Chem with it. Meanwhile dsp researches Nationalism, and Kodii does PP. Thus we should be up Chem and down Guilds/Banking. Not bad, considering we were slow to CS IIRC. I think our aim is going to be to get into Nationalism and keep all of our cities up to size 6+, which means no slaving...

[Yazilliclick]

A market it is.

[Krill]

BTW Yaz, we want a unit on the oasis, checking for any units regoarrarr moves up. And move 1 settler onto the ZZ tile, just in case...