[PB37 SPOILER] Coeurva, Bacchus -- Cyrus of Carthage

[Mardoc]

So, is learning that game mechanic at a relevant moment sufficient compensation for having the turn split swapped without warning? I'll be asking him to keep the split going indefinitely from here, of course, whoever ends up first.

[Coeurva]

I deserve that little jab. Sorry about the mess.

Yeah, we'll have to see when this border goes quiet and the split becomes less necessary, but right now I think it's very tense because both sides have so few units and vulnerable cities close together, arguably more so than the Yuri border (well, from our perspective. Yuri, on the other hand, 2-pop whipped two items on his turn. We'll need to be careful there, too.)

Sent Savant this, and hoping that all's well that ends well:

I want to stress that you've done nothing that we have a problem with, and nothing to warrant a reload -- my first assumptions were flawed. I'm sorry for not checking this thoroughly.

Nonetheless, we want to maintain a turn split starting on T79. Feel free to choose either half of the turn as you prefer.

See you in the game,
Coeur

(And hoping that I've learned the life lesson, too -- only stating my own position, leaving him to decide what's more convenient for him.)

EDIT: Technically I think our GG might be within range to activate him on this turn and give Morale to the chariot  but yeah. And I'm not even sure about that, I think he's one tile too far. Even then, can you actually spend a GG to "lead troops as a warlord" while he's embarked on the same boat as that unit? If not, that's another moot point for the collection.

[Coeurva]

Received this now:

I'd prefer the first half as claimed, but as I mentioned to Mardoc, I don't think I should be at liberty to choose after the fact, so I'll leave the final decision in his hands.
I'll honor the turnsplit on subsequent turns now that I'm aware there actually is one.

To which I sent back:

Mardoc has already advised us to go second here, to resolve this to everyone's best interests -- so play ball!

De facto, Savant adhered to a turn split from ~T70 to T77. He was never finishing turn before us, even when he logged in first. Civstats shows that, too (although it would be bothersome to check, but if you want to be sure that I'm not making anything up here, go ahead).

But perhaps he thought he was just avoiding double-moves with the one unit that mattered (the Sentry chariot -- which always moved legally), and didn't think of that as a turn split.

[Mardoc]

My understanding is that he thought the turn split had ended when his chariot moved out of range of you.

He was also concerned that Gavagai and Krill seemed to be playing only after him, so was trying to move to a point in the turn where they would no longer be waiting quite so long to play their own turns. There was the potential for a five-way split; swapping you two collapses it down to a three-way and a two-way.

Anyway, although I understand your position too, since you can't attack this turn it seemed best to just continue on the path as is.

[Coeurva]

Yeah, thanks for arbitrating from a more objective position.

I think Bacchus has a good point that we might want to talk about this after the game, as part of general RB etiquette (not rule-set -- more of a mindset question): what situations -- beyond the clear-cut settler/invasion moves -- warrant extra care in observing a turn split, or at least asking whether there's one in place, or requesting one?

But that's a matter for another time. Tomorrow I'll get back to posting about the game.

Krill played before Savant this turn, anyway. Not sure whether Gavagai follows a split, though. (And not something we should know for sure.)

[Bacchus]

On the latter question, you can, but the boat will also receive XP. You can choose who gets Morale.

[Coeurva]

T79

Eventful turn, but short report. I might edit in some more info later if I see fit.


EDIT: I'm working the mine over the corn at Whitehall because I want to whip the axe next turn, and there's not enough OF hammers without the mine (only 1-2h, forgot which). It's not optimal, I know, but I want more units in this region right now.

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

I don't want to attack Savant if we can help it at all; Yuri's situation appears worse than I had imagined, and we need a free hand in the south, which means we might have to make concessions in the north. See below.

Very annoying: with the current turn-split, Savant can raze Whitehall if there's a galley exactly on that one coastal tile we can't see (marked x). I thought the galley could see it after moving (since land units can see 2 tiles across water...), but it can't. I still moved our chariot out of the city to make Savant think it was loaded onto the galley (it's not, this is a complete bluff to see how he reacts, even razing Fountain Head would most likely kill both our chances of winning), and now I think I shouldn't have. So yeah, tempo in action.

If we could go first on T80, we'd see any enemy galley within range after our galley moves, and in the worst case, could return the chariot into Whitehall. I'm noting this because if events actually play out like this, I'll very much regret my decision to allow Savant any split he'd prefer, but I guess that would be my own damn fault.

The silver lining is that, if Savant didn't assume a turn split on T78/79, that's probably not his plan. I'm no longer sure if he can actually see inside the city, either (I think we can only look into Fountain Head due to our second-ring tiles being directly adjacent), but he has a good reason to move units across the sea even if he's not planning an attack.

EDIT: No, the clams tile can see inside. Damn.

For the record, no Power increase from him on T78. So unless he built it right this turn, as we did (and he didn't whip on T78), I'm quite sure there can be no galley within range, unless we never saw it, which is quite unlikely since I used our warrior to observe Harmondale almost without interruption. Of course, that "almost" might turn out crucial, seeing how this game has played out so far...

EDIT: There's another thing... we've agreed to go second on the basis that our chariot attack wouldn't get different odds on T80 (that was Mardoc's argument iirc). So if Savant had a galley on the "x" tile with a unit inside, he could move said unit into the city if (and only if) he plays T80 first. That makes me think he doesn't have one.

Also, general announcement to myself, I need to get fucking focused again, I think I've made a considerable mistake on each of the past six turns, and not just worker-onto-oasis stuff either. Most importantly, no wedging in turn-play between 22.00-23.00 of local time anymore, I suck double at those hours.

It's ridiculous, but the barb axe moved in towards the capital, so yes, we absolutely need the other chariot in the south, otherwise we get our copper pillaged and need to whip Rhapsody again. Note that this will also happen if we lose combat against said axe, although that should be very unlikely.



Yuri's garrison inside Cahokia. He's teching Archery (quite sensibly) and will get it in a few turns. Plan is this (not chronologically sorted):

a) Use our stack of 3 axes, 1 chariot, 1 spear to disconnect and park on the copper at his capital, pillaging along the way, and putting both the capital and the Stonehenge city under threat (also preventing units from going between Stonehenge city and Cahokia). This somewhat puny stack gets reinforced by 2 chariots, 1 axe within 2t. Vermin will build a lot of 2t chariots.
b) Next turn, 2-whip galley at Lifeblood (down to size4, but it regrows fast) and load two axes onto it (one of them 10XP Shock, one C1+Med1). Use these guys to land on Yuri's northern copper while our other stack is forcing his units elsewhere.
c) Try to settle towards Yuri once he can no longer counterattack. (You could argue that he cannot counterattack right now, but I'm not sure -- we killed seven axes almost without losses, his axes draw ours as top defenders, and axe vs. axe on flat ground is a coinflip -- we'll get a river to protect us next turn, though)
d) Once he can only build archers (and maybe horse units), tech IW (maybe right after Currency, it has economic uses too) and finish him with lots of swordsmen.
e) All the while, we also need to build enough units to defend our cities against Savant in the north.

Also my intuition was right on something: the islands have wonder-doublers, although we can only see marble and not stone (for now?). Settling there seems a good plan for X9 -> X10, unless you'd rather see Horse Filler as another harbour in the west, but that's not a city that claims new resources and wouldn't have an autonomous food supply.

Vermin should build our X9 and X10 settlers, its production is insane, and Yuri without copper will no longer be an offensive threat, although he can definitely turtle with archers.

We get lots of pop next turn, hooray. I've also switched builds to axes in every city north of Rhapsody, including Rhapsody itself (will finish library when we actually need it, hammer decay won't set in and units are urgent here)

[Bacchus]

I am convinced our galley should go and sit on the clam tile (at war). I don't see how living at constant risk of a sudden amphibious assault makes our position any better, and that tile is key to controlling Savan't naval movement. Unless the concessions you consider go as far as being prepared to give up Whitehall.

[Bacchus]

Yuri's can't counterattack right now, before Construction roads don't act as bridges, remember.

[Bacchus]

The reason land units see two tiles across water is elevation -- they are considered as if standing on the hill, whereas naval units are level. in Civ4 you always get the same visibility from borders as if you had a unit there. Also, staying on Coast gives a +10% defense bonus, which gives the famous 68% or whatever chance of winning, which ocean forgoes, it's a really large swing and a pretty risky placement.