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Had a really long conversation with yuris and later also maestro. We have decided on the following deals, each of which is a big deal.
1) NAP is extended until T141, open borders until at least T136, both inclusive
2) They have volunteered that they're letting us capture Lyons.
3) We are selling them 5 galleons in exchange for 100g in the next couple of turns, and a great scientist as soon as it pops (eta: 13 turns i.e. t120). The galleons are to be gifted to the Ottomans, out of sight of other players, over the next 6 turns. We should gift them galleons from our current stock, and replenish by building more in Lorien. They promise to not use these galleons to invade us until they've built at least one galleon/transport of their own.
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Since it's been a while and there have been a ton of posts, here is a checklist for next turn.
1) Find the galleon northeast of Echo of Moscow. Cancel its current course up to Numenor and gift it instead.
2) Locate the five workers near Hollin. Build a winery and finish the pig pasture.
3) Turn the governor off then on in Moria, and on in Dol Amroth. Make sure both cities have enough tiles to not starve, stealing tiles from other cities as needed. Queue up a Monastery in Moria and a Harbor in Dol Amroth.
4) Research Replaceable Parts.
5) Get the newly produced settler up towards northwest former france.
6) Consider moving a bunch of knights into range of Lyons, if we have enough healed or nearly healed ones. We already have a small party on a hill next to Orthanc, the rest can just go there too.
7) Strongly consider STARTING A GOLDEN AGE with the engineer/prophet and revolting to Bureau/Free Market. That civic swap is worth a lot, so it might not be worth delaying until the final french cities come out of revolt. It will also allow us to finish Replaceable parts that turn, and may speed up Notre Dame. If we do this, probably want to check every city's tiles to make sure it's not doing anything dumb. (I.e. specialists outside of Barad-dur are mostly not a good idea, because the GPP are meaningless.)
8) I just realized Dale needs to whip its bank so that Moria becomes one of the top 5 cities in pop and gets the 3 happy from rep.
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New change of plans:
Don't change the build choices in Moria and Dol Amroth. Keep them at libraries. I think we may get Scientific Method soon enough that these Monasteries won't repay their cost in hammers so we should just go straight to libraries instead.
(The other points about tile management in those cities stand.)
The reason for getting scientific method sooner is the great scientist we have purchased. He can only bulb sci meth, or once we have that, physics. All the techs behind scientific method are really really good so I think we'll want to get started on them fairly soon, maybe as soon as after Steam Power.
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Here's a rough plan for teching etc.
We get Replaceable Parts, Chemistry, Steam Power, Steel, Drama, Philosophy, Liberalism in the next dozen turns. (Maybe not Steel. Hard to tell how much we'll have time for.) The first few are just good techs. The latter are prerequisites to Communism, plus Free Speech.
Then we build up a bit of gold and nearly research scientific method. Then we research Priesthood with max overflow, then Scientific Method with double max overflow, then Communism in one turn gaining the great spy.
Meanwhile (this is 15-20 turns out) we pop two more great people and receive the great scientist from Yuris. Additionally, most of our villages grow into towns or nearly reach that stage.
When we hit communism (and naturally win the great spy, at least that's the plan  ) we can start our 3-man golden age and swap to Universal Suffrage/Free Speech/State Property. Our scientist from Yuris will probably be spare - he can bulb part of physics (hopefully getting us the scientist from there, too), or perhaps we used him on scientific method earlier.
That third (and presumably final) golden age will be extremely powerful, as we'll have Levees and the +1h from towns.
Hitting scientific method will put a big dent in our great person production (we lose GLib's 8gpp, ToA's 5, and Parthenon's 2 and 50% bonus). But at that point we will have already popped 11 great people, and they're starting to get costly anyway, and they'll only really be useful for bulbing once we start the third golden age, so it's no great loss I think.
Meanwhile the civics will all be amazing!
The only thing left to ensure is that no one else nabs Communism before us. Amusingly, I was just telling Commodore that I recommended he tech Communism a bit ago. Luckily he was also considering the merits of an assembly line beeline instead, particularly since he's Organized. I'll try to make sure he isn't racing us.
Sound good?
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So, it sounds like the plan is, basically (without checking the tech tree...) to more or less beeline Communism, after getting some good support techs.
Any change of plans to get Combustion if it turns out we have a great source of oil? (probably not...)
Also... What do we actually get out of State Property? Doesn't that conflict with Free Market, for one thing? Maybe if you plan to paper over some riverside with watermills... which get rather good if we ever get to Electricity, but we spent all that hard work growing cottages that will be able to start giving us a hammer...
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Ranamar Wrote:So, it sounds like the plan is, basically (without checking the tech tree...) to more or less beeline Communism, after getting some good support techs.
Any change of plans to get Combustion if it turns out we have a great source of oil? (probably not...)
Also... What do we actually get out of State Property? Doesn't that conflict with Free Market, for one thing? Maybe if you plan to paper over some riverside with watermills... which get rather good if we ever get to Electricity, but we spent all that hard work growing cottages that will be able to start giving us a hammer...
We'll probably want to go up the bottom a bit after Communism, but there's no hurry as we are pretty NAP'd up for the time being. Communism is good for a few reasons:
* Free Market isn't worth that much. There just aren't enough enemy cities on the map for it to be a big improvement when we already have GLH. I think it's worth about 30 beakers/gold per turn or so.
* +10% hammers. Always good.
* NO DISTANCE MAINTENANCE. This will wipe out costs of currently 120gpt, two thirds of our city maintenance costs. (Plus it's a lower cost civic than free market.) This is particularly good for us since we have ignored courthouses completely.
* +food for workshops and watermills. We will indeed want to throw these up where we don't already have hamlets or better. They are great improvements under State Property.
It's simply the best civic in that column with corps banned.
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When exactly is the NAP with GES/luddite to?
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NobleHelium Wrote:When exactly is the NAP with GES/luddite to?
t150.
NAP with Yuris is until t141.
NAP with Commodore is cancellable anytime with 7t notice.
We don't have a NAP with MNG. =)
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SevenSpirits Wrote:* +10% hammers. Always good.
Doh; still haven't internalized the State Property boosts in BtS as compared to Vanilla, apparently. (Sort of like the boost Environmentalism gives to windmills...)
(I played a bunch of Vanilla because it had been on sale, then I dropped it for awhile, then I bought the expansions when they were on sale.)
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Played t107.
Started the golden age and revolted to Free Market / Bureaucracy. Making +1238b/-403g right now, still worse than GES but not bad. 
Did the other stuff on the checklist too, including gifting the first galleon.
Moved 11 knights (and, inexplicably, two longbows... silly me) onto a hill in range of Lyons. We should attack next turn and just finish him. The city has 1 mace, 2 axe, 3 spear, 4 warrior.
I marked all the tiles I think we should workshop later with a "w". We don't need to build them yet (don't need them until communism), but basically this means if there's a cottage there it's not worth working unless there's nothing better.
Need to whip the libraries in Moria/Dol Amroth next turn. Keep building Windmills on the mainland (RP is is - the civics swap pushed us over the edge).
Also need to send 1-2 more 2xp galleons towards Yuris next turn.
We should receive 200g from GES and 100g from Yuris.
Lorien has almost max overflow and should therefore put a turn into a bank instead of a unit, to not be wasteful. (It produces too many hammers in a golden age that are necessary to just make 1 unit a turn.) Then switch back to a galleon. Research to chem: 1t.
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