RBPB3 - Gandhi of the Egyptians

[Krill]

And bad news...for India. For some reason Portugal can't trade copper to India, even though Portugal haev a trade route to me, and I have a trade route to India.

Truth be told, I never did understand how trade routes worked...

20:57 Willem: hey if you around, we were going to log in and gift you copper so you can gift it to India, apparently they really need it at the moment
20:58 I told them that you wowuld also like it in an emergency and we had that agreement
me: Can't you gift it to them with out me?
If you gift it to me, I can;t gift it on
Willem: don't think so
oh
i was wondering about that
me: yeah
20:59 I now have a trade route to India, you have one to me, so you should have one with India
Willem: I thought you could regift gifts but not trades
21:00 nope just checked
we don't have trade network with them
21:01 me: btw
who are you trying to meet with Widow maker?
Willem: that was a dantski move, he's moving wars now after I got our scout killed by barbs
21:02 not happy he left road network tbh
me: yeah...you just delayed meeting Carthage by 2 turns
Willem: err no, it's our HRE scout that meets carthage
21:03 carthage and england both have scouts out to meet our war over by hre
me: ok
then why the hell do you have a warrior in my core :D Not sure what use it is.
21:04 Willem: i'll ask dantski I think he wanted to go se for contact I told him I would prefer to scout around our territory
i no longer have military command
I'll tell him you're pissed that he appears to be scouting your core
me: You should repassword your civ
21:05 Willem: heh, after my unilateral anti france email I thought he would do that to me
me: Well, you have me and England hapy to see France dead at some point, sooner rather than later as well
21:06 Willem: right, that's a good start, I think ottos are fairly ambivalent and HRE are also perhaps even more keen
me: Yeah
21:07 To be fair, I made the call on including France, simply because without them you could have had 2 fronts to deal with, and England/HRE/Egypt would have to deal with them AND the southern row (well ,HRE had Inca/Rome to deal with)
21:08 Willem: right, yeah I don't blame you, strategically they are in a much better position
me: You take Rome out of the game, and France mess about, and they might be gone sooner than we all think
Willem: than any other team we could have asked, it's just it's only a benefit strategically if they actually contribute and could be trusted
21:09 ok, do you mind sharing your own plans over next few turns?
me: Sure
Third city next turn
Willem: war chariots going to see any action when you get horses back?
me: fourth city in not too long
doubt it
21:10 probably too late to do much with them offensively short of a stack of 30
not that I'm against doing that, mark you
They are nifty units when used en masse
Willem: heh
21:12 ok I'll let India know it isn't going to work, thanks anyway
21:16 me: np, sorry I couldn't get it to work
21:17 Willem: ok dantski just wants to meet someone se of you
i think he's hoping to accidentally bump into a scout
me: There ain;t anyone SE of me
Maya are to the south
21:18 Willem: where are maya and mali?
me: have not yet met them
Willem: i thought maya was se a bit
me: perhaps capital wise, but now, with city spread, South is a good generalisation
21:19 Willem: ok

[Krill]

So, something interesting came up this morning...

So, Babylon with an academy, and Mali...Babylon can easily replace France, with Babylon doing exactly whart Iwanted France to do. This allows HRE, England and myself to go and carve up France, which gives me alot of free land to the north and west. I'm just hoping that babylon aren't trying to play us...

11:49 Willem: hey you around?
11:50 me: Yeah, atm
Willem: ok so I had a pretty long chat with Babylon
11:51 me: cool
Willem: he would like to join CAN if that offer is on the table
but he would have to join with mali
me: OK
That is doable
11:53 Willem: he fears an attack from byzantium so the only tech he really needs is hunting actually
me: This is the information I need:
11:54 What techs they have
What are they researching
And who do they have contact with?
Willem: ok, they are saving money at the moment and will swap back to reseearch when they get their academy in 6 turns
me: Also, I'd like to know amount of gold saved, and their research rates at breakeven and 100%, but I'm not sure if they will spill that
11:55 Willem: was originally going to be scientist because they feared becoming a CAN target
me: OK
11:56 I 100% need to know if they can get contact with me and Carthage asap
Willem: I thought they had carthage and england contact
me: that is great
I have a scout right next to Byz
Willem: they are sending a scout directly towards you, but they originally misjudged your position
thought you were further west than where you are really
me: a warrior, about 3NE of the Byz capital
Willem: so he thinks it might be another 6 turns
11:57 ok well that should also be very close to them
me: OK
Can you discuss this with HRE please?
Willem: can we turn this into a group chat?
me: yeah

(11:58:18 AM) Portugal: hi guys
(11:58:19 AM) Egypt: Portugal, you want to explain what uyou jsut told me?
(11:58:22 AM) Egypt: and hello
(11:58:30 AM) Portugal: babylon wants in with mali
(11:58:58 AM) HRE: what about byzantium and maya, they in with exploit?
(11:59:00 AM) Portugal: babylon is quite a powerful techer atm
(11:59:11 AM) Portugal: and mali is second most powerful techer after babs I think
(11:59:11 AM) HRE: <checks worldmap>
(11:59:24 AM) Portugal: babylon fears a byzantium reprisal
(11:59:35 AM) Portugal: so would like hunting as their most important tech
(11:59:43 AM) Portugal: others can wait till next round
(11:59:52 AM) Portugal: also they don't like france either
(11:59:58 AM) Portugal: but they don't fear them
(12:00:04 PM) HRE: hmm
(12:00:12 PM) Egypt: Carthage is #1 in GNP
(12:00:20 PM) HRE: England would pounce at France right away
(12:00:23 PM) Egypt: Carthage is making like 55 bbpt
(12:00:36 PM) Portugal: ok, I just meant most powerful of those not in CAN
(12:00:39 PM) Egypt: But once that academy slams down, they are tehbest researchers for Currency
(12:00:54 PM) Egypt: Carthage keeps on Construction
(12:00:57 PM) HRE: we talking about france now?
(12:01:02 PM) Egypt: Well
(12:01:07 PM) Egypt: this is what I wanted France to do
(12:01:10 PM) Portugal: no, babylon are getting an academy in 6 turns
(12:01:11 PM) Egypt: but they are acting stupid
(12:01:19 PM) Egypt: so I say play dumb with france
(12:01:22 PM) HRE: yeah they're useless
(12:01:30 PM) Egypt: accept babylon and Mali in, but make them research currency
(12:01:34 PM) Portugal: no idea what france are doing, they should be getting libs as soon as possible for speicialists
(12:01:39 PM) Egypt: then turn on France
(12:01:40 PM) Portugal: mutilated that word
(12:01:53 PM) Egypt: Well, France just plain sucks
(12:02:08 PM) Egypt: and if we get Babs, then France only have one possible ally next to them.
(12:02:10 PM) Egypt: Byz
(12:02:17 PM) HRE: Mukha explain me why the southern nations haven't joinged up?
(12:02:28 PM) Portugal: well they are disjointed
(12:02:37 PM) Portugal: mali and babylon are very close allies appararently
(12:02:38 PM) Egypt: Just as we are, to a certain extent.
(12:02:45 PM) Egypt: ie splitish
(12:02:54 PM) HRE: yeah
(12:02:55 PM) Portugal: but the others aren't, they are distrustful of each other
(12:03:34 PM) Egypt: FWIW, I'm happy to forward Alphabet and a few ancient era techs, if that gets Babylon researching Currency
(12:03:47 PM) HRE: have Ottomans already given Pottery to France?
(12:03:58 PM) Portugal: no, well they may have now I don't know
(12:04:04 PM) Portugal: last I spoke they hadn't yet offered
(12:04:14 PM) HRE: ok
(12:04:23 PM) Egypt: Anyone else watchign the F1?
(12:04:23 PM) HRE: as long as france doesn't ask any techs
(12:04:32 PM) HRE: boring...
(12:04:33 PM) Portugal: ahh it's started?
(12:04:35 PM) Egypt: What do they do even if they do ask and we refuse?
(12:04:45 PM) Egypt: just had teh chequered f;ag
(12:04:59 PM) HRE: chequered fag huh?
(12:05:12 PM) HRE: special gay edition?
(12:05:14 PM) Egypt: isn;t that the start flag?
(12:05:24 PM) Egypt: I can't ttoucvj ty[e
(12:05:25 PM) Portugal: i thought that was the end
(12:05:33 PM) Egypt: eh
(12:05:35 PM) Egypt: whatever
(12:05:40 PM) Egypt: the start flag
(12:05:41 PM) HRE: indeed
(12:06:03 PM) HRE: so France, we just let them think they're in
(12:06:17 PM) Egypt: then smashie smash
(12:06:28 PM) Egypt: Obviously Portugal is busy with Rome
(12:06:49 PM) HRE: England us and Krill should be able to take them on
(12:06:52 PM) Egypt: but England, Egypt, HRE...
(12:06:59 PM) Portugal: yeah, hopefully it'll all be over one way or the other t73
(12:07:09 PM) Egypt: Might even want to consider a preemptive strike at France Copper
(12:07:16 PM) HRE: yeah
(12:07:24 PM) Egypt: once that hapens, they can only build archers
(12:07:24 PM) HRE: I'm wondering if that's the only copper
(12:07:51 PM) Portugal: oh, babylon did offer all their strategic info on byzantium and possibly maya
(12:07:55 PM) HRE: France have just planted a city near copper
(12:08:19 PM) Egypt: Well, just as a first check point, I take it all three of us are happy with this idea, of letting Mali and Babs in?
(12:08:26 PM) Portugal: yes
(12:08:49 PM) Egypt: HRE?
(12:08:53 PM) HRE: count us as a yes, and you can already add England to that
(12:08:59 PM) Egypt: ok
(12:09:04 PM) Egypt: I think I can swing Carthage with that
(12:09:19 PM) Portugal: nobody actually replied to my email
(12:09:23 PM) HRE: we'll work on Ottomans
(12:09:27 PM) Egypt: ok
(12:09:33 PM) HRE: India isn't really active diplo wise
(12:09:33 PM) Egypt: India, well...
(12:09:37 PM) Egypt: yeah
(12:10:06 PM) HRE: in any case, Aztec and India have no real say in the matter
(12:10:10 PM) Egypt: but they probably won't take this too well
(12:10:13 PM) Egypt: yeah
(12:10:19 PM) Egypt: they aren't teching, so get no choice.
(12:10:20 PM) HRE: they have other fish to fry
(12:10:35 PM) Egypt: Portugal, how is the saving gold going?
(12:10:48 PM) Portugal: just 10gp a turn while we work hammers
(12:10:57 PM) Egypt: You are also the main contact point, so you are probably safe in getting techs from them
(12:11:03 PM) Egypt: ok
(12:11:22 PM) Egypt: But as you lay down the cottages afterwards and grow, with your land, you should be fine to be a funxder once currency comes in
(12:11:34 PM) Portugal: yes,
(12:11:48 PM) Portugal: was it just you, france, and babs as the phi?
(12:11:50 PM) Portugal: I forget
(12:11:57 PM) Egypt: After Korea died, yeah
(12:12:38 PM) Portugal: ok all cool, I think Babylon was running it past Mali
(12:13:00 PM) Portugal: and were going to wait for a definite offer
(12:13:04 PM) Egypt: I think we need to ask Babylon about them researching Currency
(12:13:15 PM) HRE: yeah
(12:13:17 PM) Egypt: Because that is hte big one
(12:13:24 PM) Portugal: yep, so I'll tell them maths comes in t70? or was it t71
(12:13:31 PM) Portugal: I really should write this stuff down
(12:13:36 PM) Egypt: tell them you don;t know, but one of those 2 turns
(12:13:42 PM) Egypt: or
(12:13:44 PM) HRE: around those
(12:13:47 PM) Egypt: just say before they get their academy
(12:14:19 PM) HRE: ezzzrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrhh bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb"t
(12:14:25 PM) HRE: whoops
(12:14:34 PM) Portugal: i tried to pronounce that
(12:14:34 PM) Egypt: Looking after the kid there Ilios?
(12:14:40 PM) HRE: yup
(12:14:43 PM) Egypt:
(12:14:51 PM) HRE: she agrees with the plan
(12:15:01 PM) HRE: as long as she gets cake...
(12:15:05 PM) Egypt: We'll make a civer out of her yet :D
(12:15:05 PM) Portugal: heh
(12:15:31 PM) HRE: so what do we tell the others?
(12:15:42 PM) Egypt: Ri9ght now?
(12:15:45 PM) Egypt: Nothing
(12:15:48 PM) HRE: ok
(12:15:53 PM) Egypt: Figure out what babs really want
(12:16:03 PM) Egypt: because still need to be paranoid about this being some sort of backstab#
(12:16:08 PM) Egypt: I'll work on Cartahge
(12:16:08 PM) HRE: so xait until babylon confirm teching currency
(12:16:16 PM) Egypt: yup
(12:16:25 PM) Portugal: right
(12:16:29 PM) HRE: ok
(12:16:39 PM) Egypt: Once we get Carthage, England, and Ottomans down on this, then we are good to go
(12:16:40 PM) HRE: mukha you keep us posted?
(12:16:45 PM) HRE: yup
(12:16:52 PM) Egypt: because that is all of the remaining important techers that hold the big techs
(12:17:01 PM) HRE: i'll get ottomans and england
(12:17:04 PM) Egypt: if we can't promise them archery, masonry etc
(12:17:10 PM) Portugal: sure, could you guys communicate with carthage, england, ottos as soon as possible and let me know?
(12:17:12 PM) Egypt: they won;t care provided they get the biog classical era techs
(12:17:42 PM) HRE: well we need babs confirmation first$
(12:17:51 PM) Egypt: Ottomans are yours; HRE, I'll take Carthage, and whoever reaches England first gets that?
(12:18:08 PM) HRE: i'll take england as wekk
(12:18:19 PM) Egypt: ok
(12:18:21 PM) Portugal: ok
(12:18:37 PM) HRE: your move muka
(12:18:53 PM) Egypt: Well done for organising this mate
(12:19:03 PM) Portugal: heh, well I'm glad I don't have to send many more emails
(12:19:10 PM) Portugal: disheartening when no one responds
(12:19:19 PM) Egypt: I find it easiest to negoitiate in chat
(12:19:32 PM) Portugal: yeah, can't get away
(12:19:40 PM) Egypt: and just use Email for bulk details
(12:20:41 PM) Portugal: so i'll get them to give us an eta on currency
(12:20:54 PM) HRE: good
(12:21:02 PM) Egypt: Awesome mate
(12:21:11 PM) Portugal: right, talk again soon then
(12:21:16 PM) Egypt: also, if you can get them to meet me asap so I can forward Alpha, that is critical
(12:21:16 PM) HRE: yup
(12:21:22 PM) Portugal: yep
(12:21:36 PM) Portugal: did you say 3NE of byz capital?
(12:21:39 PM) Portugal: your scout?
(12:22:18 PM) Egypt: yeah
(12:22:32 PM) Egypt: but I also have a WC that I could use to try and make contact depending on where they are
(12:25:37 PM) HRE: hehe poor Mali and Babylon, not even in a tech alliace
(12:25:49 PM) Egypt: Or in one but not wanting to be
(12:26:06 PM) HRE: if I were the others I'd try to grab them right way
(12:26:43 PM) HRE: would be awesome to see the look on france's face when we run down their soldiers with 4 Horse Archers each
(12:26:51 PM) Egypt: TBH, I'm not sure that the CANT didn't make a play for babs/Mali
(12:27:03 PM) HRE: true
(12:27:17 PM) Egypt: I think that they did, bab/Mali agreed but didn;t like the terms and still wants in ours
(12:27:31 PM) Egypt: ie they don;t like Exploit
(12:27:36 PM) Egypt: don;t like their neghbours
(12:27:38 PM) HRE: honestly I really don't know what France has been doing
(12:27:46 PM) Egypt: And yeah
(12:27:54 PM) Egypt: France has been n00bing
(12:28:08 PM) Egypt: 4 HA from you and England
(12:28:19 PM) Egypt: some WC from me, and they are just toast
(12:28:22 PM) HRE: even so, you'd have to really do your best to piss everyone off you meet
(12:28:37 PM) Egypt: Er
(12:28:41 PM) Egypt: RBPB1 maybe?
(12:28:51 PM) HRE: ?
(12:28:56 PM) HRE: he played?
(12:29:03 PM) Egypt: Oh no,
(12:29:08 PM) Egypt: I seemed to piss off everyone
(12:29:20 PM) HRE: yeah, but now you're all soft and cudly
(12:29:23 PM) Portugal: sorry was just rereading my previous babylon chat to see if I missed anything
(12:29:46 PM) Portugal: mali and babylon are working with byz and maya our of necessity not any close friendship
(12:29:49 PM) HRE: just talking about france
(12:30:11 PM) Portugal: apparently byz have a big team, and keep saying contradictory things
(12:30:19 PM) Portugal: when kyan corners different ones for chat
(12:30:31 PM) HRE: kyan is babylon?
(12:30:35 PM) Portugal: sorry yeah
(12:31:08 PM) Portugal: Kyan, Twinkletoes and whosit, but TT and whosit are playing a fairly low key role
(12:31:25 PM) Egypt: ok brb, 2 minuteas
(12:31:36 PM) HRE: they need to stay in their role as long as possible
(12:32:06 PM) HRE: Mali and Babylon I mean
(12:32:20 PM) HRE: undercover
(12:33:10 PM) HRE: oh no, wont be possible once babylong get alpha
(12:33:38 PM) HRE: I just like the fact that france are so diplomatically clueless, they won't see anything coming
(12:33:49 PM) Egypt: bacvk
(12:34:24 PM) Egypt: Fracne really are clueless though
(12:34:38 PM) Portugal: who has their graphs?
(12:34:38 PM) Egypt: And yeah, Babylon need to stay undercover.
(12:34:46 PM) Egypt: I don;t have contact
(12:34:49 PM) HRE: good
(12:35:01 PM) Portugal: heh I could have sworn they said they were sending a scout to you ages ago
(12:36:03 PM) HRE: ok, I'll be back in later on for an update.
(12:36:20 PM) HRE: i'd like to plan for war on france as soon as possible
(12:36:27 PM) Egypt: OK
(12:36:40 PM) HRE: i'd like to ask open borders maybe
(12:36:45 PM) HRE: scout out their lands
(12:36:48 PM) Egypt: I can probably get 6 WC real easy
(12:37:02 PM) Egypt: unpromoted, but doesn;t really matter
(12:37:07 PM) HRE: nop
(12:37:24 PM) HRE: catch you guys later!
(12:37:38 PM) Egypt: cya mate

[Krill]

Insert blurb about the turn here:

Met Byz, placed EP on them. I'm not really interested in the land next to them, but there is a possible grass cow/dry rive city I could plant if I wanted a front city next to them...

Planted Sto Lat on the plains hill, and moved 2 workers so that they can pasture the sheep, finishing t69 with 2, t71 with 1. Currently working the horse, so I'll likely chop and pasture at the same time, so I get the granary in the city eot t71, before the food box is half full at size 1. This is the possible Jewish Holy city, even though I possible get a double Holy city at Dunmanifestin. (All praise be to the RNG).

I lost John Keel, at 92.6% odds to win. Although now it turns out I don;t want to meet France, I suppose it could be worse...he got me contact with Carthage and England, who are hopefully my BFF, in which case he did a good job. Just annoying, and it highlights the reason I much prefer scouting with chariots.

As you can see from demographics, I'm starting the climb back up towards the summit, but I've got that double slave coming next turn in AM, so it'll be a double dip recession for me...

Also, need to consider about bulbing CoL. The way I'm thinking of doing it, is getting hte Obelisk in DM, and stopping working the gold at t71. GP pops eot t79, which is after India would get theirs. So to make sure I get Theo first, I'm jsut not going to give them Mono. Argument will be, why do they need it? They don't have a religion, Ruff is busy rebuilding, don't want to spread it around too widely so it keeps techs expensive for the CANT...and if they say they want to bulb Theo, I just say I want to do that as well...they might bear a grudge, but not like they won't do it anyway.

I then push out the second GP from AM, I start working 2 priests on t78 to reach 96 gpp eot t79 (after DM pops), then go full bore and pop the second GP on t88...depending on if I get a temple. If I had a temple in AM from t80 onwards, I could pop the GP t84...and considering I'm planning on finishing the granary in AM on t70, that gives me a fair few turns to just grow it straight up, and I can easily chop a missionary or three from DM if I have to (1 for AM, 1 for Carthage, and then maybe 2 for the new cities depending on religion...). We live in interesting times...

Pictures:

[Krill]

(edited in blurb above)

Message to Carthage:

Nice Guy,

Thank you for the update, I greatly appreciate it. On the most point, I'll trade you Alphabet for maths the turn that you can trade it. And just checking, but you can trade it on t70, right? I'm asking because I use the numbering that the turn I give is the turn I research it at the end of the turn, so I can trade it on the next turn. Just checking which method that you yourselves prefer to work with.

Regarding Construction, that one is up to you, but it depends partly on how you want to play the game. It you think you can defend well enough using just NC/axe/spears, you could research Currency instead. However, there has been a recent change in circumstancves that happened while writing this email. Babylon has indicated that they would like to join the CAN, and Babylon claim they will be making an academy in 6 turns. They are a great team to have research Currency, but they also want Mali in with them. If we did accept them in, that would allow HRE, England and myself to go and knock France out with HA/WC stacks. I know HRE, England and Portugal are OK with this, idea, but I wanted to know how you felt about it, because it does limit your expansion.

Ultimately, it is up to you, but considering your position in the game, and your leader, it shouldn't be impossible for you to expand to an easy 6 cities and still be able to tech (especially once me and England start funding you). You could consider this an an excuse to out expand everyone else, which I'm pretty sure everyone else would buy.

And the misclicking is fine, I keep an airlock gmail account to help deal with that

Thanks in advance,

Krill

[Krill]

I am going to enjoy it when they realise that we have Babylon and Mali, that France is getting 3v1'd and Rome is getting mown down by chariots.

Yeah, I admit that I was entering the chat with the intent of getting them to support Exploit. They are Exploits' tools, and I'm not overly worried about using Exploit as a tool to slow down Expansive India...I'm not really fussed about making Byz long term enemies of me, Babs can help deal with them so Babs get most of the land to expand into. Once France gets taken out, then Byz will have so many borders to hold they are in for a big shock.

18:03 me: Hwllo
18:04 *Hello
just met you in game earlier today
18:06 Byzantine: oh hey
cool!
18:07 must have met the SSV agincourt?
me: Nope
Byzantine: huh
me: My warrior is 3NE of your capital
Byzantine: ah, k
18:08 anything in particular you care to discuss, or just saying "hi"?
(this is bobchilingworth, btw)
18:09 me: Not much, just making sure you were aware
that I was there
Wouldn;t be that nice if you were to log in next turn and see a warrior right on your vborders with moves available
18:10 I was wondering if you would be interested in a basic NAP, you don;t mess with my units, and I don;t mess with yours?
Or if you wanted a more detailed one, longer, shorter etc
Byzantine: I think we're beyond being worried about a single warrior
18:11 I can't make any NAPs at the moment; my team runs by consensus
however, I trust that your warrior has no hostile intent
18:12 me: Indeed it hasn't
18:13 but in this world, with roaming chariots, who would be unwise enough to not take precautins?
7 minutes
18:20 me: You mind if we have a frank conversation, instead of dressing it up in the diploshit speak that others tend to do?
5 minutes
18:26 me: I take that as a no, or you just busy?
Byzantine: ah sorry
was away
no I'm totally up for a frank conversation
18:28 you are still there? You status on g-talk seems to stay orange, even when you're typing
me: Multitasking
OK
Right now this game appears on the suirface to be a 1v1 with different alliances
but it really isn't
18:29 Right now it can go 2 ways
You guys keep on supporting Exploit, and get bogged down, and some people continue to build up, and others get stuck in a war.
18:30 Forcing the two alliances to stick together
or
Stop supporting Exploit
both alliances fall apart
and reform into smaller groups
203 per group etc
2 to 3 per group
Now, I don;t know what Exploit has been telling you
18:31 But he hasn't been acting all that nice.
Byzantine: elaborate
me: Basically demanding most of the land between him and India
18:32 like, 70%
How would you feel if I came and demanded that I settle right on your border?
and at teh same time demand an NAP until turn 200
18:33 Byzantine: How would you feel if there was a 9-team cartel aligned against you? Why would your group just suddenly splinter apart?
18:34 and even if it did, you're several techs ahead of us
at this point
unless you're all going to start gifting things to my team
it's sucide to turn on my only friends
me: This might come as a surprise for you, but I only oracled Alphabet to trade for BW and Pottery
I didn;t want to put together a large tech alliance
18:35 Byzantine: oh gee i hope it wasn't forced on you ;___;
me: Now, I am willing to trade you Alphabet, for very little: specifically, an agreement to spread Hinduism to all of your cities
You'd be surprised
18:36 And You should understand that not everyone in this group is friends. Just as I susect not everyone in your group are clsoe friends
sometimes you have to work together out of necessity
And that shouldn;t be a reason we our two teams can't work together
18:38 Byzantine: no, there shouldn't, except that even if you give me alphabet I still find myself forced to trade with the same people I intend to anyway, because everyone in your group already has all the techs I do, and has no interest in gifting them to me.
18:39 Unless there's some definite assurance that your group is falling apart I don't see any reason why I should turn on my 6 buddies
me: Who said this offer is to just you?
Everyone has one or two people they will want to work with
18:40 You can consider asking for techs up front in exchange for a tech you will now research. That opens up the opportunities for you to exploit
18:41 And don;t forget that once Currency is in, with funders/researchers, that greatly simplifies the field
Byzantine: It's playing catchup still, and it's far easier and more reliable to just have allies gift you techs.
18:42 having a 9-man group is a game-winning strategy, at least in theory, and I can't blame you for wanting that; but it doesn't make the game particularly fun
but asking me to run off on my own and become the 1 in a 9 vs 6 vs 1 is absurdity
or a 9 vs 4 vs 3; whatever
18:43 me: That is an absurdity, which is why I'm not asking you alone to do this
Byzantine: why should I believe that your group will ever splinter?
or when
is there someone that you wish to attack?
surely your war chariots have closer targets in your own cartel
me: That would be on possibility
*one
18:44 Look, I don;t really care if you continue to attack India
This is an FFA
Byzantine: I don't seem to be at war with them
me: I'm not getting hurt by it
I can see that you want to be intransigent
18:45 oh well.
Byzantine: sorry, I don't see much here besides an attempt to get me to abandon exploit
18:46 if you were to supply some definite plans for splinterring both factions, then I may be interested
18:47 me: All I need to do is splinter yours
Byzantine: but so what, you offer alphabet to me and maya and whoever else, big deal; what do we do, run off and form a bite-size alliance
well yeah all you need to do is splinter mine, makes it pretty easy to pick us off as you see fit
18:48 oh or is your 9-team group so scared of us that fear is the only thing holding you together?
me: Fear and greed of taking all of your land.
18:49 Just remember that you are going to end up supporting dead weights
As are we
we can either continue the status quo
or stop
and think
18:50 Byzantine: and learn to love <3
18:51 Look, like I said I'd like to break down these alliances, but I'm not particularly impressed by the 9-member team asking my to break up my catch-up party
hey how about you go attack portugal
they're dead weight
what are they gonna do, build their crappy UB on a one-tile lake?
hah!
18:52 me: You'd be surprised at what Portugal can do, considering they are teching.
Which obviously shows a flaw in your C&D
Byzantine: yeah I know what portugal can do. whip whip whip
protugal is predictable
but if they
're so good, why abandon them
you won't want to
18:53 and why would I abandon exlpoit?
me: Where do you see yourself in 50 turns?
18:54 number of cities
techs
army
How much of that is going to be used to protect Exploit?
Or do you think that Exploit is going to start growing shortly?
18:55 Because right now it is a 5v3 around there
Long term you are not in a good position, you have said so yourself.
Now, you seem to think I want you to go your own way right now, which isn;t true
18:56 Byzantine: no no you want me to take some of my buddies with me
makes it even easier to kill us
me: I offered you alphabet on those terms, and that is on the table, it's not going once this chat is finished.
Ah screw it. You're right
Thank you for correcting me
Prepare for the war chariots mate
18:57 Byzantine: :D
me: Just remember what happened after Kalin pissed me off
and that was in a 3v1
18:58 Byzantine: oh wait are you joking because I'd totally love to match teh great krill in battle, with you sending chariots across the earth to me, and all
haha yes pb1
incans did quite well there
if I recall
18:59 me: until Exploit took over a team with 50% higher MFG, crop yield and GNP
and then look how he screwed it up
Byzantine: and a great army!
19:00 me: It is a pity he didn't understand how that empire worked.
Considering he was stupid enough to revolt to caste system when that was built on slavery
and never followed the building instructions
19:02 Byzantine: ah well. Are we done here? Have I pissed you off enough that I can kill your warrior, or is there some sort of action that you can propose that actually breaks up your own alliance as well?
me: I was going to propose we let Exploit and India fight it out
But now I'd rather force you to help defend Exploit to weaken your army
19:04 Byzantine: it's true my army will be mysteriously weakened gaurding exploit while your side will, what, spawn from the ether
19:05 me:
Byzantine: I guess you don't care much for india?
want to finally get revenge on rego? He sort of outplayed you before
19:06 I'd want to humble him too!
me: Nice attempt
19:07 It would help if it were true
19:08 Byzantine: wait I don't even get it, you said that I stop supporting exploit, you don't work with India- but do you just mean yourself, or your stupid cartel?
19:09 are you personally really sending guys to protect india
that sounds rather unlikely
19:10 me:
You'd have gotten an answer to that if I thought you were sincere
but as it is, no chance
19:11 Byzantine: oh like I said, I'd love to destroy the big ol' alliance structure with you
but that's really not going to happen, now is it?
19:12 you won't turn on 8 players feeding you tech. why the hell would you?
and I'm not going to run off and abandom allies just because you can get me alpha in exchange for building up your economy

[novice]

I am going to enjoy it when they realise that we have Babylon and Mali, that France is getting 3v1'd and Rome is getting mown down by chariots.

Yeah, I admit that I was entering the chat with the intent of getting them to support Exploit. They are Exploits' tools, and I'm not overly worried about using Exploit as a tool to slow down Expansive India...I'm not really fussed about making Byz long term enemies of me, Babs can help deal with them so Babs get most of the land to expand into. Once France gets taken out, then Byz will have so many borders to hold they are in for a big shock.

This is interesting.

Bobchillingworth seemed pretty angry. Did you intentionally try to annoy him to tie him closer to Exploit? Did he annoy you, or were you just acting to wind him up?

[Krill]

I figured one of two things would happen. Either he would agree that we need to all take a step back from the 2 alliance set up (which works for me, makes the game more fun as we've seen this set up before, and possibly more teams will find that enjoyable), or it would reinforce the setup, which is OK for me when you take into account that teh alliances are about to shift in my favour, leaving me with no neighbours to the north or west, and Byz/Maya to the south who are already in a warlike situation.

Byz aren't likely to be my friends, and several teams need expansion space (in this case Babs) that I can turn into allies instead of Byz. And Byz have the overpowered Knight replacement, so I could do with them not being around once that came online...

Once he said about the NAP, I figured he wasn't stupid enough to let my warrior wander around in peace, which places him even further away from me. After that point I stopped caring if I made him angry, because if he comes after me then Exploit has less cover, and I can easily afford to upgrade 2 warriors, and WC also own chariots. HA too, hammer on hammer. The India smashes Exploit into the ground, Portugal chariot rushes Rome in a few turns...that entire front is just going to be a bloodbath.

[Krill]

I think I have something like a 300 line chat with England on going, taken up most of this evening...probably going to have to split it into 2 or 3 chunks...oh wait, 419 and still on going.

19:07 me: Yo dude
You heard the news?
England: no
me: OK
here is hte gist of it
babs and mali
19:08 want in the CAN
England: we would be fine with that
me: Awesome
England: what changed?
me: that means we can go kill France
England: I mentioned that earlier
I was lackluster
me: Er, this was only jsut brought to my attention...
ok
England: oh, sorry
19:09 When I said it, it was "They want in, but I didn't think it made sense"
me: for what it is worth, I always wanted to overfill the CAN
that might have been the reason
I just wanted it over filled, kill a few extra teams, and use the extra space
ie dead Exploit, France and 2 others would have been OK by me
England: So we need to work on a HA strike on France's copper city
me: yeah
or
preemptive
19:10 Also, I just went and pissed off Byz big style
England: oh?
good thing France has such crappy contact...
19:11 me: Byz are basically Exploits biggest supporters it seems
they can get sunk together
England: Babylon thinks they can handle Byz?
19:12 me: probably can tbh
England: without horses or copper?
me: between mali and Babs, could be trading resources
could be prepping to double slave out an army
19:13 lots of ways it works
England: I don't know what Mali has
we'll get resource visibility on Babylon once we get Sailing
19:15 there's one monster river that runs from London to Genesis and halfway to HRE
me: Wouldn;t surprise me
there is probably only 1 river on the entire map
19:16 England: heh, could be.
There's a tile in our territory that would've had 21 rivered tiles
me: ugh
should have planted there
ultimate IW city
England: Would've conflicted with a horse city
19:17 directly
we got Pigs, dry wheat, and horses
me: decent enough
England: and ~16-18 river
19:20 17 river
France's copper isn't mined
much less connected
me: you got horses?
England: yeah
me: slave 2 charitos and kill the city
would be my best guess
they don;t have archery
and can't hook up metal
19:21 that would be the aggressive way to play it
if you waited a bit
England: right
me: get out the chariots manually
then slave 3 HA
once HBR is in
so you have archery btw?
England: No
me: ok
England: need Aztec contact
19:22 me: how is contact with ruff coming along?
England: no clue, you said you'd organize their chariot stopping by
since we're going SW to meet India's warrior that's going NE
me: ugh
ok
19:23 do you haev hunting?
England: yes
HRE
me: depending on speed
might have to research archyer yourselcves.
and we pass Monarchy over to Mali
Need to think abotu this
Well, thought about it
19:24 England: we can get Archery in 3t
me: it comes down to how much you want to wreck France
England: at 100%
me: ok
England: I need to talk it over
me: how much gold would you have at the end?
oh, definitely
England: 120?
me: ok
England: Oh, less
we're building our 4th city soon
so, 115?
At ~-18gpt to research?
19:25 Monarchy will take us about 8-9t at 100%
if we've got Mono
especially if we're running AF scientists for a GSci for something
me: ok. I need to run to dinner
19:26 will be back in half an hour, if you are still around
England: ok
I should be
me: cool, post about it and have a think. Cya that mate
England: who all knows about this?
Babylon + Mali in, France out?
10 minutes
19:37 me: ok back
19:38 HRe
England: I think we can get 4 chariots to hit Lyons on T76
me: Portugal
hmm
England: if that's what we decide to do
HAs wouldn't be too far behind
me: HRe, Portugal, myself, Ottomans, and Carthage have been informed
19:39 Basically, everyone that is teching
England: Have Babylon and Mali been formally welcomed?
or informed?
me: Portugal emailed them back
no word as of yet
17 minutes
19:57 England: Archery research would also let us help Babylon
We'd have it available to trade on T70
me: ok
England: and probably 110 gold, actually
me: that is a plus point to it
ok
now
19:58 need to figure out how long it would take babylon to research currency
England: probably not all that long
T90-93?
They'll get their academy vewry soon
19:59 if they don't have their Academy by T73, they're misplaying Pericles
and Kyan and Twinkletoes wouldn't do that
me: they said they get it in 6 turns
and are saving gold
England: are they able to put their scientist beakers into Currency already?
20:00 me: Nope
I don;t have contact with them
20:01 England: I notice you gained contact with Byzantium this turn.
me: Yup
England: what did you do?
me: just basically had a massive pissing contest with them
England: heh
20:02 me: Do you remember what happened between Kalin and me?
in RBPB1
England: been a while
the early game blended together a bit
you threatened a lot of people
the Sailing extorting was a CMOA, IMO
20:03 me: CMOA?
England: Crowning moment of awesome
it was just a great example of you negotiating style
me: Would you believe it if I said I just got offered a job as a sales executive because of how I play civ?
20:04 England: the thing is, you're not nice. Salesmanship is usually about sweet-talking them into doing what you want
Or, your style isn't
salesman shouldn't be blunt, and "I'm going to kill your scout if you don't give me something" is rather blunt
20:05 me: Yup
England: sidetracked, you were going over Kalin and you
me: Ah, it was just Kalin refusing to accept an NAP
England: that was another bullying moment, leading up to Lins Lost
me: yup
20:06 Just arguing going back and forth
this was along the same lines
but tbh
I kinda want him angry
because 10v6 they don't have a hope in hell
20:07 England: especially given the state of at least one of their 6...
me: yeah
England: I don't have a clue where Orleans is
20:08 I was hoping France would come online
was hoping to chat with them before this broke
get an informal, get-to-know-you type of thing
me: uh
England: maybe get them to tell me their tactical situation because of Babylon's tactical army
me: don;t tell france about this
England: of course not
20:09 they're still a good member of CAN
as far as they're concerned
me: indeed
England: Sorry, Byzantium's the one who's been prepping for chariots
and is directly south of France
20:10 me: yeah
20:11 England: we might still be able to get Monarchy
just early 80s instead
if Lyons falls
me: and get teh gold?
sound
20:12 England: yeah
Let's see, a city founded T63, taken T76, how much gold would that be?
me: I don;t know
I think it depends on size as well?
England: well, that's enough time to be size 2
or, size 2 & then whipped

[Krill]

Part 2...

20:18 England: When do you think you could hit France?
me: Depends
I don;t know where they are
so not sure on travelling time
20:19 and I need to get hroses back from Portugal
and position my workers to chop out the chariots
not sure
England: you know the corn near where we met?
me: yeah?
England: Paris is 23E of there, and a few tiles south
Lyons is NW of there, and we've got that
Orleans, I don't know
20:21 Paris 29E of Carthage's gold
and 3S
me: 64-29=35w
England: right
20:22 me: so 16w of my capiatl
England: that would make sense
I think they mis-moved the Paris settler and moved back
20:23 me: It would make sense
England: except then it started way north of us
like a good 4 tiles
20:24 London is 5S of Paris, and we moved 1SE
20:26 I'm glad Math is going to be coming in soon enough to make a difference
20:27 me: yeah
England: I think we could get 6-8 HAs to go with those 4 chariots able to hit Paris by T90
without hurting infrastructure too much
me: You, me and HRE need to get together to plan out that assault
England: right
me: ideally the soooner hte better
to stop France from trading for metal
England: agreed. HRE disappeared from chat just before you'd told me they knew
20:28 me: Ilios has router issues
btw
England: ah
me: you use teamseapk?
England: I can
me: need to set up a cadre that uses it
England: for military planning, it's great, since we don't have to alt-tab
20:29 me: yeah
20:32 England: the problem is going to be getting a fair land split with HRE
we need the copper city
whether it's Lyons or rebuilt
and Paris isn't viable for them
me: Probably better to rebuild tbh
20:33 meh
England: depends on how much they contribute
me: even if we just raze everything and partition the land afterwards,
England: they're not going to get much
20:34 we'd let them get 1 site to the west, and that's all the land left between our two civs.
outside of the copper + sheep
Paris and Orleans won't need to be razed, although they might have to be gifted around.
me: they are a little far to hold onto though
20:35 England: Paris isn't that far for us
me: maintenence
toroidal screwing with it is what I mean
England: true
20:37 Micro question: Stables or not at our city that's going to be looking at 300 hammers (including chops) by the early 80s? We might build a worker or 2, but most of it would be for HAs
barracks is up
me: basically, stable is one less HA
England: right
me: so if you plan on getting nothing but HA from that city
20:38 then you get 5HA that are 2star, or 6 that are one star
I'd go with the 2star if you think we will have overwhelming numbers
England: I think we will
me: because 2star HA just own archers
England: and can deal with spears
me: and shock is so important for damaging any possible spears
so I thik it is worth the investment
20:39 yup
England: Also would let us get a sentry chariot
or medic
me: ping
got go with stabels then
20:41 England: thanks, 1 stable will do us a world of good
43 minutes
21:25 England: oh, Babylon does have copper
me: oh goody
England: wasn't obvious, because they've got a 2nd source 2 tiles outside their culture, contested with Byz
21:26 me: well they can have that as well as far as I am concerned

England: agreed
just, that wouldn't be available in time to fight
me: I need to stop roleplaying Vetinari
England: it's going to get you killed.
21:27 Vetinari is far too dangerous a man to leave in the game.
me: Just would the game be any better for you if I'm dead
England: no, it wouldn't.
At least, not yet.

me: It's going to be a fun balancing act :D
21:29 England: it will
7 minutes
21:36 me: Have you met Babylon btw?
England: oh yeah
21:37 we've met everyone but Portugal (next turn), India, Aztec, and Rome.
me: Jammy
I still need to meet Exploit, Rome, Inca, maya, Babs, Mali and France
21:38 Considering I killed Korea though, no one will meet as many teams as me
England: ...
well, who knows.
Someone else might die before you meet them
like Exploit
me: Good point there

[Krill]

Part 3...

22:04 England: Babylon wants the exact specifics of the deal if they join, including NAPs and so on
me: ok
22:05 NAP between Babylon, Mali, Carthage, England, HRE, Ottomans, Egypt, India, Portugal in Aztec. Basically, play and be nice.
Get ancient era techs for free.
Providing Carthage are OK with it (still waiting to hear back)
22:06 they get maths and Alphabet upfront from me and Carthage
and they need to research Currency asap
You can comment about Monarchy if you want
22:07 but say if they research Currency they basically get HBR and IW as well once they are finished and they get contact with teh researching civs
but don;t say who is researc hing what
England: what does Mali do?
22:08 me: Ask them for the economic details
so, bpt at 100% science
and breakeven
and gold produced while saving
etc
Also ask if they have Sailing
or contact with portugal;
England: they don't have Sailing
but have contact
with Portugal
22:09 me: ok, that works
Possibilities are
Calendar
Aesthetics
don;t mention monarchy
Still not really wanting to risk the possible backstab
so want construction and Monarchy to be in "our" hands
22:10 England: right, although the NAP between us and them was signed after they knew about CAN
me: ok
22:11 England: Babylon is their HBR civ
so stealing them would be a huge coup
22:12 me: oh wow
22:13 yup
England: after only Alphabet, that is the tech we want to delay as much as possible
As of T68, they'll have 93 gold
with the academy, they're looking at 45bpt @ 100%
plus city #4 will have gold
22:14 me: ok
they won;t have to start until they meet me, or t70
so they have extra turns to save gold
and when do they get the academy?
England: 6t
me: don;t want them researching until they have the academy in place
England: right
that should be about right, then
22:15 515 base beakers
if they've got Math as well
me: yup
they will have both techs
22:16 Also, can you ask them for one specific peace of information for me?
England: aye
22:17 me: I would like to know the position of their NE scout, relative to the Byz capital
so I can triangulate the position to try and meet it
22:18 England: They have a woody II warrior 4S and 12W of your capital
no, I did not tell them where your capital is, that was already known
22:19 me: ok, tell them to head straight west
I'll try to meet them with a war chariot
just got to deal with a barb warrior atm
mow him down and I'll be on my way
England: right
ok, he'll be moving west
Mali contact, as well, is needed
22:20 Babylon's getting that info
me: tell them that byz are likely to toast my warrior
that is next to the byz capital
so unless they can somehow get byz to lay off without arousing suspicion, Mali are more likely to havbe to try and find me
22:21 England: not possible
let loose the dogs of war!
me: meh
England: it seems you made Bob angry
me: cool
goal achieved then
22:22 England: right
but who's going to be your first casualty?
what's the warrior's name?
me: Abba
Stronginthearm
named my warriors after the watch charactors that died in NightWatch
England: I saw Keel
me: He is dead
94% chance to win, and dies
22:23 England: yeah, we lost a 95%er
Making extreme odds (say, 90% plus) be auto-wins would be a good change for Civ 5
this 50-50 tweaking business..yuck
22:24 me: Yup
I feel exactly the same way
England: I remember a chess-like multiplayer game that had a system like that
it was a little weird
17 minutes
22:42 England: T71 Exploit Alpha
me: end of turn or trading on that turn?
England: EOT
22:43 me: cool
still on target then
question
ask Babylon who has hunting
out ofthe CANT
Maya, Byz
Rome, Inca
Because Exploit don't
I don;t think the latter to have either
22:44 England: Sumeria has Hunting???
me: doesn't
no spears
I'm just wondering if Sumeria can even trade for Hunting
England: me: not that I'm aware of
Do you know who's got Hunting?
Maya/Byz/Rome/Inca?
Pericles: sumeria only atm
if we had Alpha, we could tell you
22:45 but that gives Exploit +2% on Hunting
I mean ALpha
me: ok
I'm going to ask Ruff about that
Ruff has contact with Exploit
and alphabet
should should be able to check
22:46 England: aye
22:47 Pericles: eot i believe
you guys taking him [Exploit] down before then?
me: not that I'm aware of
me: Tell him that was the original aim
not sure if it is doable
but giving it a go
22:48 At the very least, Exploit isn;t coming out of it in one piece
22:49 England: and forcing him to whip will slow him down
me: yup
22:50 England: "if you can confirm that he's basically crippled or at least forced to whip before his alpha date it would help a lot
if he whips, his alpha time dies"
me: hmmm
England: will they threaten the cities in time?
me: he does have hunting
does he have copper though?
22:51 England: one second
me: he probably doesn't
22:52 he has to be trading for it
England: Exploit "is demanding everyone's armies"
me: he doesn;t have sailing
so can't trade
np
(10:53:30 PM) England: "After discussions with Maya and Byzatium I have changed my production around such that I will be able to build my own non-warrior units to defend myself by Turn 75 (6 turns earlier then the original plan). Assuming my math is correct, I will still finish Alphabet on Turn 71 (if my math is wrong then it will be Turn 72 at the latest) however there is no longer any chance of me finishing Alphabet before Turn 71.
Regards,
Exploit
looks like a hell no to me
i guess the diver tot hunting was a bluff
*divert"
(10:54:12 PM) England: so, no, Exploit has no copper
(10:54:13 PM) Krill: he doesn;t have archery
(10:54:25 PM) Krill: fireworks are still primed and ready to go
(10:54:35 PM) England: even he wouldn't be that pushy if he had some defenses
(10:54:47 PM) Krill: Possibly
(10:55:17 PM) Krill: Why does it feel like 2am...
(10:55:27 PM) England: it's, what, midnight for you?
(10:55:33 PM) Krill: 2255
(10:55:49 PM) England: oh, right