This Time for Sure: Mardoc reprises the Lanun

[Mardoc]

Lanun were always awesome at playing towards their theme (at least as far as water-economy went) ... it was just the Boarding Party UU that was underutilized.

Lanun could make an ocean city almost as good as a grassland city. And they had the earliest commerce benefit, in the coves.

But before, even with Hannah, the best they could get non-cove coast to was 3/0/3, less yield than pre-sanitation grass aristofarm.

Tile yields are only half the story. Just how much commerce/turn are you getting from trade routes? I bet *that* will close a lot of the gap.

Well, we'll find out some of this answer in four turns when we bite the bullet and go Conquest.

But...land cities without anything else get 4 TR's, now at ~2gpt each, total of 8 gpt. Coastal cities without anything else get 5, at 1-3 gpt each (the bigger cities have 3 gpt, the last route is still same-continent), for ~10-12 gpt/city. Coastal cities with lighthouse get 6, and Mainmast gets 7 (it has an inn).

Probably about 150 gpt, from our 13? cities (base commerce, that is). Granted, nothing there is Lanun-only; anyone else can do the same thing. It was really Expansive than enabled our massive city spam, not Lanun.

Which is the piece of Ilios' play that confuses us the most - why the heck isn't he in Foreign Trade too? We know he has Trade, and he needs his cottages to grow even more than we do, since they do double duty for him. And, now that Uber's started to grow onto islands too, with a lot more cities than Ilios, I expect his econ to catch up to Ilios. Well, presuming we don't exercise the Boarding Parties and take them away

[Thoth]

Minor correction: we don't need our cottages to grow anymore. All 21 of them are now Towns. :hat: (technically it'll be 20 Towns once we get around to farming over the Plains Town in Poopdeck....but that should wait until after we farm the remaining Grassland tile.

Foreign Trade is an excellent civic in EitB.

[Mardoc]

Minor correction: we don't need our cottages to grow anymore. All 21 of them are now Towns. :hat: (technically it'll be 20 Towns once we get around to farming over the Plains Town in Poopdeck....but that should wait until after we farm the remaining Grassland tile.

Foreign Trade is an excellent civic in EitB.

Ok, perhaps I misspoke. I coulda sworn we still had a few villages...almost makes me want to lay down some more . Even though I know, we need hammers the most if we're ever going to the others.

But I still think Ilios should be a Foreign Trader . In fact, I kinda want to try Bannor in EitB now, see if a rush for FT and then Crusade works.

Anyway, I'll be playing the turn shortly (gotta eat and get the X and XVIII saves played, first), so if you've any comments, let me know.

[Thoth]

Ok, perhaps I misspoke. I coulda sworn we still had a few villages...almost makes me want to lay down some more . Even though I know, we need hammers the most if we're ever going to the others.

But I still think Ilios should be a Foreign Trader . In fact, I kinda want to try Bannor in EitB now, see if a rush for FT and then Crusade works.

Anyway, I'll be playing the turn shortly (gotta eat and get the X and XVIII saves played, first), so if you've any comments, let me know.

Agreed with the synergy between Bannor and FT.

We're fine in terms of commerce. And any cottages laid down now would be slow growers. Food and Hammers are what we want.

Comments....looked at current save.....

umm. you owe me a can of paint.

Wheel has a Cove (rushed WB?) but no border pop....and the local Cultist is standing about near Mainmast while his ride apparently left before he could get on it?

We're a few gold short of rushing Guybush this turn, he should be rushable next turn to enable SoC in Hold (who finishes it's courthouse this turn with a bunch of overflow. Think we build Research in Hold next turn to preserve the OF then swap to the SoC on t112).

Tiller can 1t a Courthouse on t112 after the Command Post. Topsail should put one turn into CH on t111 then swap into another settler, finishing CH once the settler is done. Mizzen can 1t a CH on t111 then resume Settlers.

Jib Boom should work the Furs this turn instead of a Coast (it'll still grow but we gain extra commerce and hammers this turn).

Pearl City should have it's WB rushed this turn and work Pearls instead of Copper (allows another pop growth next turn with the new Cove).

Worker micro is weedy as per normal.....wtf have you been doing with our Northern workers? We really wanted a road to Iron city in place by now....

In the south....Workshop outside of Bilge should have been a higher priority than the road to a city we won't found for another 4/5 turns.

Clam/Incense city has one workshop too many...and one chop too few. Too late now for optimum yields, but if you work both WS plus Clam we can 2t growth and the LH. Then build Culture and get a WB to build the Cove.

Also: It's long past time to start thinking about possible land based incursions and defense.....it's all very well to have all our HM in the East hoping to level up....but if Illios strolls across the mountains with a stack, we'll be hard pressed to get re-inforcements there in time.

Some defensive plans and troop deployments are past due. Sooner or later someone is going to try and reign us in.....we need to be prepared.

Note that Illios now has Smelting.

[Mardoc]

I can fit the 'here be dragons' bit onto my screen, now!

Also, we saw a Sea Serpent, but fortunately still had plenty of movement left at the time.



Finally, I discovered a mistake. See, Cultists can't just walk onto a boat. Oh, no, they have to be 'loaded'. So our OO temple in Wheel will be delayed a turn while the ferry goes back for the cultist

Ah..lovely crosspost action. Some reactions:

Jib Boom should work the Furs this turn instead of a Coast (it'll still grow but we gain extra commerce and hammers this turn).

Disagree. We want all the food we can get, every last one. That would have cost 2 food, maybe delaying a later growth.

We're a few gold short of rushing Guybush this turn, he should be rushable next turn to enable SoC in Hold (who finishes it's courthouse this turn with a bunch of overflow. Think we build Research in Hold next turn to preserve the OF then swap to the SoC on t112).

Huh, I hadn't considered rushing him - I was going to keep dumping the hammers into WB and Shipyards. Especially in the island cities. We really want a Siege Workshop in Hold, anyway, before we get to the hot and heavy militarization. But...maybe I can see your point.

Worker micro is weedy as per normal.....wtf have you been doing with our Northern workers? We really wanted a road to Iron city in place by now....

They're making a road, via the Pigs. I'm pretty sure it'll be ready by the time the settler finishes hiking thataway.

In the south....Workshop outside of Bilge should have been a higher priority than the road to a city we won't found for another 4/5 turns.

Well, finished it up this turn. That settler is built now, though - so this is the mirror image of your complaint about the north, where I built workshops instead of roads .

Clam/Incense city has one workshop too many...and one chop too few. Too late now for optimum yields, but if you work both WS plus Clam we can 2t growth and the LH. Then build Culture and get a WB to build the Cove.

Hmm, I didn't consider chopping anything, I figured we want lumbermills everywhere instead. I have a Cultist en route here, figured that would work better than building Culture.

Also: It's long past time to start thinking about possible land based incursions and defense.....it's all very well to have all our HM in the East hoping to level up....but if Illios strolls across the mountains with a stack, we'll be hard pressed to get re-inforcements there in time.

Some defensive plans and troop deployments are past due. Sooner or later someone is going to try and reign us in.....we need to be prepared.

Note that Illios now has Smelting.

Yeah, I hear you. What we need most, of course, is recon. And our Siege workshops and Iron. But I'll start working on something in more detail.

[Mardoc]

Ah, finally here! Optics this turn; the revolt will come in three.

Think we build Research in Hold next turn to preserve the OF then swap to the SoC on t112).

I thought about doing that...then decided we've got a better method of preserving that overflow:


This is why:

Also: It's long past time to start thinking about possible land based incursions and defense.....it's all very well to have all our HM in the East hoping to level up....but if Illios strolls across the mountains with a stack, we'll be hard pressed to get re-inforcements there in time.

Some defensive plans and troop deployments are past due. Sooner or later someone is going to try and reign us in.....we need to be prepared.

Note that Illios now has Smelting.

Ah, combined with this little detail:



Not that I'm advocating these (yet), but I hadn't realized just how vulnerable the Giants really are. That's basically 1-warriorpult range of odds. I figure the best defense plan is to either settle close, get the citadels in culture, and garrison them heavily - or simply to plop down a city on that hill.

In other news, we met Darrell:


Moved off to the north to stay out of range of the griffon. We're getting very close, 2-3 more turns if we can go in a straight line.

Here's darrell's city count; quite respectable, really:

Of course, either he or uber has an incoming stack

Finally, I've decided to start a tour of the empire for the non-dedlurkers, one city at a time. We'll start with the heart of the empire, our capital, obvious leader of the top 5 cities list...Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Mainmast!



Note that it's working every tile in its BFC, and what fine tiles they are! Towns, farms, resources, coves...

Mainmast has 7 trade routes, largely worth 3 gpt each, Dereptus, an Academy, a Library, and a whole bunch more.

Mainmast is growing as vertical as we can make it grow - we're finishing up the Theater, then will start either something for health (granary, perhaps), something for specialist slots, or a Shipyard and Forge. I'm leaning toward the Shipyard and Forge, myself, more hammers make everything else easier. Especially since I'm starting to think about wonders again...the Guild of Hammers looks awfully nice with our empire right now...

[Mardoc]

As for a tech path - Thoth suggested something fun. Since we're having a heck of a time keeping up with hammers on the military tech we do have, let's go for a route that helps with both hammers and improving the stuff we've already got - Mithril!

I still think we need a couple basics, first: Animal Handling for Hawks, and Mind Stapling for Saverous/Tower of Complacency. But after that, we're going to grab Mathematics, Engineering, and Mithril Working. At our current tech rate, that's a 12 turn path for the five techs; of course we're going to lose a bunch of speed when the golden age expires. But we still ought to manage Mithril weaponry by the time we manage a serious army. Which will be a combination of chariots, boarding parties, and boarding parties destined to be phalanxes. That's a bunch of Str 9 units, with some Str 16's mixed in for fun.

And...we're going to build the Guild of Hammers, too. It's just too useful in a wide empire like ours - doubly so when we're depending on metals to keep our strength up. Probably the best spot is Mainmast, once we give it a Shipyard and Forge. Thoth, I checked the civilopdia, it says Mithril can be Rusted too. But if we've got forges everywhere, that might not matter all that much.

After we've made it to Mithril, we'll have a couple options. Number 1: pick up the arcane techs. Number 2: Pick up Fanaticism and try to build the Gate. Number 3: Crush the world .

Of course, these aren't exactly mutually exclusive

[Mardoc]

One more turn!


In other news, more tech:

Mind Stapling next, followed by the Mithril Path.

Rushed Guybrush, after about 5 minutes of debate whether we should instead rush Keel's shipyard. I think we rush that next turn, along with a Wheel workboat for the Fish. Next turn Guybrush dies and we start on the Shrine to Guybrush.

In other news, we've got one iron city founded, and the next due in two turns. Spread OO to Wheel with one Cultist this turn, and should manage the southern coastal city next turn. Iron cities will have to subsist on just building their culture (or free spreads, or maybe spreads from Poopdeck.

Speaking of which, I give you the manufacturer of golden ages, the source of a shrine and an academy, the squeezed city of Great People Points, Poopdeck!


As you can see, Poopdeck itself will never be that much of a city. That's not it's purpose; its purpose is to help the rest of the empire. It's already birthed three great people (including a Sage at EOT), and will keep going for the indefinite future. It helped Mainmast's cottages grow, and its destiny is to work only those tiles no other city wants, combined with as many specialists as we can afford. And in the meantime, build OO missionaries, warrior garrisons, etc.

[Mardoc]

Darrell, your workers were standing way too close to my fire, and I'm afraid they got burned.
It's never too late for a suicide Firebow rush, right? :blob:

Well... Darrell.

In news closer to home, we've got good news and more good news and then a smattering of expected but still painful news.

First up:

and at EOT:


Second...alas, poor Guybrush, we knew you well:



Next, with our last turn of golden age, it's time to use the civics we worked so hard to unlock:


Cost difference:

Uh, yeah, I think it's time we get serious about using that last piece of being Organized - half price Courthouses! We've already been exploiting the half-price Lighthouses, and have a bunch of Command Posts built.

Next up in our tour, a solid contributor of gold and settlers, a city that doesn't need much more than it has, Topsail:


No more worker turns need to be invested here, and very little infra is left, either. It's probably worth putting up a Courthouse, and perhaps a couple specialist-slot buildings combined with a little more growth. And maybe also some commerce multipliers, a Command Post, and perhaps even a Siege Workshop. But all in all, Topsail is pretty much a mature city. It's been contributing settlers for the last long while, along with a good chunk of commerce, and that's pretty much what it will continue to do.

Finally, a last melancholy note: now that we're finally out of Golden Age, and out of our economic civics, to boot, our demos no longer look quite so dominant:


But given the upcoming period of strife, it was necessary. We can now train lvl 4 units anywhere with a Command Post (or a Shipyard, for the naval versions), using food as hammers. And we've got a solid lead, still, with a lot of growth still imminent, and no known incoming armies. So we're not exactly crying over here

We also have half of the next GA on ice; I swapped Poopdeck to Merchant/Priests to make sure the next GP is not a Sage, so we can fire off GA #3 as soon as our next Person is born.

[Mardoc]

Oh, I suppose there is one other minor detail of awesomeness from the turn. We finished our first Siege Workshop, and are on the verge of having Iron (2-3 turns, it'll be a race between the already settled city with Iron in 2nd ring and the about-to-be settled city with Iron in 1st ring. So we'll rotate the horsemen through the workshop, and all the units through cities, and finally have a military that's actually worthy of the name. 7/5 Chariots are much nicer than Str 4 Horsemen!

Next step...deciding where to use said military I figure the first step is to take that barb city, and to make plans for occupying both mountain citadels. About which - the hard part isn't killing the giants. The hard part is coming up with a garrison that's worth using. After that...well, pretty much the only opponent who doesn't make a good target is darrell, because of his position. Well, and because I expect him to be undergoing quite enough pain without us piling in.

So do we go after Ilios, because his power is low? Or Uber, because he seems to be doing the best job of keeping up with us? Or Tatan, because he's the tastiest target (assuming Firebows are away from home)?

Actually, I figure the current focus remains defensive, while finishing up filling in our homeland peacefully. I can start to see the limits, but we're not there yet! We've probably 10 more mainland cities to found, plus another 5-10 island cities, before we're really out of room. That is, of course, a pretty gigantic defensive perimeter.