MoM bugs reports (to do list)

[robinh3123]

My points for shadow daemon issue are rephrased as follows:
* Current implementation:
magic spirit globally move at speed of 2
shadow daemon globally move at speed of 1
magic spirit + shadow daemon globally move at speed of 2

* Comments:
1. Shadow daemon is way too strong. Giving it a speed of 2 globally is not good. Human players can use magic spirit + shadow daemon cheat (?) to make shadow daemon move at speed of 2.
2. Current implementation is logicaly wrong. It make a feel that magic spirit boosts global movement of shadow daemon.
3. I don't think it a good idea to make Shadow daemon globally move at speed 2. (for balance matter)

[robinh3123]

I think it's quite unintuitive that spirits use 1/2 MP per square. 1 MP per square and giving it 2 MP sounds more clear. And 1 extra movement point in battle would be a difference from vanilla, but a minor one. The discrepancy between combat and overland speed is not a quirk worth keeping. Even if someone tried to make it a gameplay effect (for example slow but tireless things like golems, undead having lots of overland speed but low combat speed) it's not flexible enough.
Maybe it was a dirty workaround for things like floaters benefiting from roads.

I disagree to give 2MP to magic spirit. It will make magic spirit a too strong unit to raid cities in early game. Human player can just use magic spirit as a way of initiate the battle, while using spells (phatom warrior, etc.) to do the killing. Survival rate of this kind of magic spirit will be very largely increased, if it is given 2MP.

[Yet this kind of use is my favorite. I use Alchmy + Archmage + Conjurer + Sorcery Mastery + Node Mastery + CNSSSS. With magic spirit spam + phatom warriors, it's already too easy. Giving 2MP to magic spirit make this a super strategy.]

[robinh3123]

Fog of war is wrong for AI player:
AI player never explore to the neighborhood of my capital, but he cast the following spells on/near my capital:

Corruption,
Raise volcano,
Chaos rift,
Call Chaos,
etc..

I even suspect AI player can move a big strong stack of army directly to my capital without prior exploration. (Not verified, since normally I am the strongest to defeat them all )

[robinh3123]

Both two units have wind walking, and these two unis are in a 9-unit stack. Will this 9-unit stack move at the higher speed of the two wind walking units?
No.

It seems the algorithm pick the first wind-walking unit as the one to carry the whole stack.

I can't remember which combination has odd behavior. Try Dijjin + Hero (4+ mv).

[kyrub]

@robinh3123
- Please, don't spam the thread with multiple posts. I can read even long ones very carefully. (If you have another idea after you posted the previous, use edit with your last post - thanks).
- Also, if you want to really help with the correction, it would be nice if you could procure (fabricate) a situation that displays the bug. I am very grateful to b0rsuk (AI priests!) and others for doing so till now, it incredibly speeds up the progress (see 1st post in thread).

@b0rsuk
Thanks for info!
Invisibility: this bug seems quite important now, since invisibility should grant immunity to being targetted by enemy damage spells. Bingo, sounds great.
Wraithform: I guess I can reduce the problem to a simple moment - Shadow demons having only a 1 square movement. Wraithform should grant them double and there's no point they would use 1-mvt flying instead. For Wraiths, there's none of this. But I really don't know how should I correct it now without changing the game substantially. I may even leave it as it is...

Fog of war
I will look at it in some distant future. I am quite sure AI checks for FoW in many instances, but you may be right about the spells you mentioned. (No saves necessary here.)

[Oven]

Hello, and thank you, Kyrub! Your great efforts to patch old masterpieces (MOO & MOM) made me very happy these days!

Below is the report of the bug I noticed in recent replays.

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When:
Every time you cast "Dispel Evil" (Life) in tactical combats.

Version:
MoM v1.31/v1.40h, without any other MODs, DOSBOX 0.74.

How it happens:
According to the manual and in-game descriptions, You should not be able to cast "Dispel Evil" against non-Chaos/Death units. Same as "Star Fires". But actually you can. You can cast "Dispel Evil" against any targets you encounter once you learned it. With mere 25MP, you can inflict heavy damage (or instakill) any enemy unit except "Charmed" heroes. I think this is too powerful and not intended by SIMTEX.

When it does not:
AFAIK, this always happen with any game settings.

Save data:
The save data uploaded by B0rsuk has "Dispel Evil" and "Star Fires". You can reproduce this bug with his save. Just start a combat anywhere, then click "Star Fires" (Life combat spell) in the spell book. The game will say "There are no Chaos or Death units throw this spell on". Then click "Dispel Evil". Target any enemy except "Charmed" heroes (they are immune to this spell).
http://www.sendspace.com/file/h4ty08
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This bug may be very famous. But I couldn't find the information about this in recent searches, so I posted this here. I hope this doesn't irritate you. Sorry for my poorly written English...

[b0rsuk]

Haha, good one ! And you've caught me playing Life magic, don't tell my friends !

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Do you remember Warp Creature, the 18 mana Resistance spell no one uses, with +/- 0 to saving throw ? There are two little known facts about it:

1) You can keep casting it on the same creature. This isn't completely stupid, because the spell can produce 3 different effects:

- 0 resistance
- halved (rounded down) shields
- halved (rounded down) swords

2) If you cast the spell on a creature which already has all the 3 effects, the game freezes. You can still move the cursor, but nothing else works. Certainly not buttons, and I haven't tried hotkeys.

Savegame: http://www.sendspace.com/file/s52i3x
You have 48 casting skill, enough for 4 castings (discounts for lots of books and mastery). You have Hell Hounds parked next to ruins with zombies. Zombies have resistance of 3, it should be easy to enchant them 4 times, especially if "0 resistance" appears as the first effect.


This game is amazing ! Some spells are so bad no one uses them and bugs go unnoticed for years.

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If I may suggest a workaround rather than a fix... kyrub, could you make it so that only 1 "warp creature" effect can be active on a creature ? That would make the spell easier to balance for me in a mod, I would drastically lower the price and/or change spell save if I Like Serena tells me how :-). I think being able to enchant a creature rather easily but not knowing what the effect will be would fit Chaos magic well. Right now, it can be hard to balance because if it's "0 resistance" then you just keep casting the spell again and again. It's VERY all or nothing in that sense.
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Flying shadow demons:
kyrub, you might've missed the fact shadow demons can't be attacked by walking melee units. They fly at 1/turn, yes, but can escape to the other plane at any time, and benefit from flying status in combat.

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robinh3123:

I think you've misunderstood how I wanted "floating" units to work. 2 movement points, but 1 point used per square. It would still be 2 squares/turn, it would just be displayed differently. Considering floaters don't benefit from roads or pathfinding, it would change nothing except for battles. You mention spamming Phantom Warrior in combat - magic spirits moving a bit faster in battle only wouldn't change the outcome of battles, right ? For Phantom Warriors you need lots of casting skill, some mana and discounts if possible.

[I like Serena]

If I may suggest a workaround rather than a fix... kyrub, could you make it so that only 1 "warp creature" effect can be active on a creature ? That would make the spell easier to balance for me in a mod, I would drastically lower the price and/or change spell save if I Like Serena tells me how :-). I think being able to enchant a creature rather easily but not knowing what the effect will be would fit Chaos magic well. Right now, it can be hard to balance because if it's "0 resistance" then you just keep casting the spell again and again. It's VERY all or nothing in that sense.

Well, to ease the load of Kyrub, I've checked the code out and found the location of the save-modifier of Warp Creature.
It is 2 bytes at offset 0x84E0D in WIZARDS.EXE.
Currently they hold the value "FF FF", signifying a to save modifier of -1.
To make it for instance -3, you would need to make it "FD FF".
Btw, I'm not sure if it works properly if you make the save modifier positive.
The casting cost and research cost can be edited directly in SPELLLDAT.LBX with Joel's editors.

Note that this location is in code, and all the save-modifiers are nearby.
I'm considering to compile this into a list of spells with their save-modifiers, but before I do that I'm wondering if Kyrub might be planning to reorganize this code...

Kyrub, are you planning to modify this code (function Resist_spell_modifier_get)?

[kyrub]

Hi Oven, welcome to RBO. Thanks for your report, Star fires, Dispel evil. Noted.

I couldn't find the information about this in recent searches, so I posted this here. I hope this doesn't irritate you.

Indeed, I cannot remember seeing the bug anywhere. - Hm, I do seem irritated, lately, even to myself. Sorry, guys.

@b0rsuk
Warp creature, noted.

If I may suggest a workaround rather than a fix...

Insecticide is all about fixes, I am afraid.
Shadow demons - You misunderstood me, I have no intention to change the unit or the way it moves. This has become a feature. On the other hand, on this evidence the bug with wraithform movement is still present in the game and we have very little space to fix it (without making sh_d quick).

An interesting idea about making non-corporeals equivalent to 2 MP flyers. The code is a mess in this respect, which means they changed it somehow late.

@ILSe
What should I change there? - The to save modifiers are one of the features in the game that are untenable and they should be modified. Resistance is a broken concept in MoM.

[b0rsuk]

1. The way Invulnerability spell works is highly suspicious.

Previously I complained that my Klackon infantry could barely scratch invulnerable pikemen, and Eldritch Weapon/Flame Blade made no visible difference. Now, it's Elite Adamantium Dark Elf Halberdiers vs Arch Angels (2) with Invulnerability. Arch Angels kill 2 of my best halberdiers losing what, 1 or 2 HP ? Adamantium should take care of weapon immunity. Invulnerability says it also negates first two hits - what two hits ? Per casting of the spell, per attacking unit, or per attacking figure ? If per figure, it's horrible.

In the savegame you have a stack of 7 elite adamantium halberdiers and a priest next to a city with Archangel ruins.
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2. Water units can cross land diagonally.
Technically, it's two water tiles adjacent diagonally, but the way it looks makes that all but obvious. Actually, I suspected it could work, and wanted to test it. Surprise, it works. I remember there can be at least 2 cases where it happens, and in one case it really looks like there's a narrow strait connecting the two bodies of water. But not in this case.

See attached picture, it comes from the same savegame. You can cast Floating Island.
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3. Myrran cities undecided if they're roads or not (minor bug)
Normally, cities count as roads for purposes of movement. But if you order a unit to enter a ship, it forgets that cities act as roads. It will try to go around cities if they appear to have difficult terrain. Even if the unit enters a city on its way to a ship, it doesn't get the road discount.

The bug is very clear to see on Myrror and in presence of enchanted roads, but probably exists with normal roads and Arcanus too. I call it a minor one because it can be avoided if you move the unit manually square by square. kyrub, I know you hold the movement code in contempt. I won't be surprised if you don't want to fix it (it can be avoided). But if it so happens that it can be fixed with little effort, it would be nice.
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4. Something is seriously wrong with Dispel/Disenchant spells !

In the same savegame, I'm experimenting with various dispel tactics to see if I can get rid of the invulnerability on arch angels. Frustrated with the lack of success, I'm testing drastic measures. I cast max Disenchant Area True (66 skill) and note the results. So far both archangels retained their Invulnerability in each of the 5 fights ! Some calculations based on Plight's description of the spell:

Success = (66 * 3) / (66 * 3 + 40) = 186/206 = 93/103. So, chance of failing to dispel one invulnerability should be (103-93)/103 = 10/103. Less than one in ten. Chance that both archangels keep their invulnerability after such Disenchant Area True is 10/103 * 10/103 = 100/10609, approximately 0.009 . Yet this is what happens time after time. Every single time I try. Regular Dispel Magic and Disenchant Area is just as bad.

Does anyone remember having success with Dispel Magic or Disenchant Area in Master of Magic without Insecticide patch ? I don't, I only know Disjunction works. Maybe the 4 spells were broken during all these years ? At least AI can use them. That wouldn't surprise me, considering my earlier bug report (AI dispels only undesired spells just like the manual says, while dispels cast by player removes buffs from my own units !)

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Savegame: http://www.sendspace.com/file/5k3o1j