Pitboss 11 Organizing Thread

[Oxyphenbutazone]

I would do it if it was AI Diplo/AW

[NobleHelium]

Pitboss 7 failed because the double move rule was not followed.

well there was no double move rule. some people even felt it was encouraged.

This kind of statement was one of the reasons why the double move rule was not followed.

The double move rule was to not intentionally double move, but if it happened naturally in the course of playing, then so be it. Repeatedly camping the start and end of a turn to double move every turn was not supposed to happen, but it did.

[teleh]

The more recent Pitbosses don't seem to have double move issues of any magnitude, so whatever's been decided there might be good to follow! With a bit of flex for inexperience (leeway for genuine mistakes is probably constitutional heheh).

I'd like some limited diplo over AI and not Always War, least not in this game. PB8 has AI diplo with a couple of additions but is still a mite restrictive. WarriorKnight in the latest FFH PBEM has made an interesting suggestion re limited diplo but that may be a bit too much if we don't want it delaying play unduly. Where's Goldilocks when you need her?

[SevenSpirits]

Pitboss 7 failed because the double move rule was not followed.

well there was no double move rule. some people even felt it was encouraged.

This kind of statement was one of the reasons why the double move rule was not followed.

The double move rule was to not intentionally double move, but if it happened naturally in the course of playing, then so be it.

That's not true. Here's the rule (bolding is mine):

Double moves (please read, comprehend and play accordingly):
Allowed. Only if you’re last to end turn or didn’t end turn at all you’re not allowed to do anything during the first 2h of the turn.
It is good idea to take screenshots to verify the timings. This is to encourage people to end their turns in timely fashion. In general I really hope that there is no one constantly delaying ending turn or playing last just to get advantage. Even if you manage to win this way you won’t get much respect from me. One should remember that this game is just for fun and the luckiest instead of best will win so why bother to constantly abuse the mechanism. It is not fun!

Double moving was allowed, even intentionally, as long as you leave 2 hours if you are last to end turn.

What was looked down on was intentionally delaying playing your turn, an annoying action which can help double moves but is not a requirement for them.

[NobleHelium]

All right. I stand corrected. What I remembered was my interpretation of the spirit of the double move rule.

[Cornflakes]

My understanding of our PB9 "rule" ... "agreement" ... whatever you want to call it (and the way I've been playing) is that double moving is allowed except in war time. Playing back-to-back in peace time if you're last in turn is encouraged to keep the turns rolling. In war, the affected parties pretty much drop into sequential with one always playing before the other. In my case time split hasn't been the most convenient, but I've worked out a system where I log on in the afternoon/evening and take care of everything I can without the touching the units, then Azza plays middle of the night my time and I jump in quick in the mornings before leaving to move the units and end the turn.

As long as you trust each other to not be jerks about it or game the system something like this seems to work well ... maybe even better than a rigid rule, because where there's a rule there's always a loophole. With "act in good faith to not double move" there's less of "how far can I go without getting in trouble" and more of "would I call [that guy] a jerk for doing that to me? Yes? ok I'll not do that." To my knowledge there haven't been any issues yet this game.

In the beginning we did about 2 turns/day, and except for a couple pauses we've maintained a consistent 1 turn/day for the past 2 months, with a couple extra "bonus" turns each week (maybe 9-10 per week).

[Bigger]

Pitboss 7 failed because the double move rule was not followed.

well there was no double move rule. some people even felt it was encouraged.

This kind of statement was one of the reasons why the double move rule was not followed.

The double move rule was to not intentionally double move, but if it happened naturally in the course of playing, then so be it. Repeatedly camping the start and end of a turn to double move every turn was not supposed to happen, but it did.

right. the spirit of the rule in pb5, pb7, and pb8 is the same - don't be a dick. the interpretation of don't be a dick in pb7 was too vague, and interpreted in different ways by different people. in pb5 and pb8 it was clear - double moving, period, is being a dick. which is why pb5 had no problems and pb8 has not had any problems so far .

[Jowy]

Problem I found in PB9 was that we didn't really define what a honor rule on double moving means. Different people have different opinions so it can get dirty. I know in my case, I didn't even realize that I was doing anything wrong until a lurker pointed it out. That worked out, but I think it would be better if you define what exactly you mean with the honor rules before the game starts. I think nearly everyone here in RB is ready to compromise and not be a dick, but you can't assume that everyone's idea is the same without confirming it first.

[teleh]

double move prevention seems to be one of the trickiest things to govern, although almost everyone wants it to work functionally and fairly. "Don't be a dick" (babelfish says: play fair even though the mechanic isn't perfect, or even able to be implemented perfectly 'in polynomial time' probably (*cough* still waiting for that Civ6 quantum state mod)) - seems a good rough basis for greengreens to enjoy a first game.

In the only MP experience I've had (gamespy), one of the games had something like a 45 second turn timer which may have got a bit longer as turns went on (I don't even know!). I thought I played pretty okay and it had been going for a couple of hours (intense) but when I launched an offensive on a certain prize city, another player decided to game it up and park half a dozen units next to the city with the sole purpose of grabbing it as soon as he could double move. When I took it back a couple of turns later the ingame chat exploded with bullshit from that player. Those two things to me - angry (non?)diplo tending more toward RL, and double move as a legitimate tactic - are things that I seriously don't think make the Civ4 fun.

I am really really hoping that some players who've had the experience with double move trials and tribulations will be happy to give advice to players on what is and isn't dickish and we can follow what's become the norm with double move rules on RB. Without needing to go all Perry Mason.

[teleh]

Alright, another thing to decide - turn timer.

I shall posit: 48h turn timer with a similar gentleman's agreement to have the turn played within 24. Post if you can't make the 24, but if it's consistent let's look for a sub.

The reason: RL is more important so the occasional delay shouldn't warrant a pause, and shouldn't be an issue on the odd occasion as long as other players know what's going on. But to be fair you *do* have other players enjoying the game as part of RL too. 24 hours is the turn period.

*calmly awaiting the slaughter, yet smiling politely*