[NO PLAYERS] PBEM58 lurkers and their kindhearted gentle thread

[Old Harry]

If c-h does settle the third city he's planning he's got a good chance of keeping B4ndit's city. I'm kinda glad I didn't pipe up saying it was a bad location now. He'll need some spears though.

Would pointing out that sharing food with the capital is usually pretty strong be too much help?

[NobleHelium]

Uh, yeah. We could point out a dozen things that everyone is doing wrong if we wanted.

To be clear, if he starts asking or talking about something like that, then it could be okay to say that.

[Bobchillingworth]

If c-h does settle the third city he's planning he's got a good chance of keeping B4ndit's city.

How is that? It looks to me like B4ndit can use his two workers to hook up his horses in four(?) turns, and then he only needs a couple turns to whip a chariot, and then can attack in three more. It's not clear to me that Cheater Hater can have a non-axe or warrior unit in Edirne within 9 turns, especially since he seems to think B4ndit will whip an axe instead. Although if B4ndit really does go for an axe, the city may well hold.

[Old Harry]

I missed the bit where he's finishing iron working before thinking about hunting. for both of us.

I suppose there are some ambush opportunities, and maybe enough warriors can hold out. Do captured holy cities give culture?

[Ceiliazul]

Yes, the +5 culture applies according to the usual religion culture rules.

[NobleHelium]

You know, there are so many ridiculously terrible moves in this game that the ridiculousness is cancelling out and making some of the moves not terrible...

[SevenSpirits]

Accepting the peace offer seems REALLY bad to me. I don't see what B4ndit gained from that. On the other hand, I have no idea how Cheater Hater is going to defend against a chariot-based counter. At least it will be delayed and less effective due to the peace treaty?

[Bobchillingworth]

Yeah, unless Cheater Hater gets it in his head that he needs to be researching Hunting right now (at 8 beakers a turn, lol), there's no way he can hold it with only axes and warriors when B4ndit comes calling with chariots in 10 turns or whatever. And then he'll probably lose that new city he planted near Edirne as well. Although who knows, maybe B4ndit will attack with like a single unit and lose or delay until CH whips Praets or something

[NobleHelium]

eastway looks like he's doing well, size 4 flood plains city.

[SevenSpirits]

Overvaluing axes and undervaluing spears is one of the easiest multiplayer-newbie mistakes to make. In single player:

1) The opponents defend with mostly archers, so axes are the best units offensively.
2) Barbarians are a problem, and they don't get chariots, so axes are the most useful units due to both having the highest strength and their position in the rock-paper-scissors wheel.
3) You really prefer to be able to build warriors for garrisons since you aren't worrying about the AIs attacking you, so you often avoid hunting so you can build warriors instead of spearmen.

Whereas in multiplayer:

1) If someone's attacking you with units that you want axes against, that is very unusual and you can know ahead of time.
2) Chariots are the most common enemy unit to be scouting near your borders.
2) Mounted units are the preferred way to seriously attack.

Axes have only niche use in multiplayer because the best unit in a vacuum is the chariot, and the spear gets second by virtue of defending against chariots. Axes are confined to capturing small, isolated cities, being part of a mixed stack, and amphibious attacks/defense.

Edit: This is in response to Cheater Hater's latest update, which shows 4 cities guarded by 3.5 axemen and 2.5 warriors, and hunting not yet researched. And in particular, his border city which is a captured second city of a player who he saw hook up horses guarded by only an axe.