[Spoilers] Freddy is an Old Giza

[Old Harry]

Do you need help simming anything?

The foaming rage of any poor sap neighboring HATTY OF INCA's culture?

I'm thinking theaters. Everywhere.

Also yeah, I'd appreciate some simming to get a feel for who is best for 2nd and 3rd settlers, but it's kinda hard to evaluate cre without knowing the lie of the land...

I'll post some sandbox files in a bit.

[Old Harry]

The first 13-17 turns seem obvious for all three leaders, it'd be good if you can beat my 2nd settler times but I'm more interested in how different they feel for the 2nd and 3rd settlers. As I said Hatty is very map dependent and Justin gets off to such a slow start that I wonder if his IMP can even catch up with the better start techs of the other two.

Fred t13 (choice between mining and pottery)
Hatty t15
Justin t17 (delayed worker)

Edit: this is one of the best first settlers I've done with Hatty, will add the others tomorrow.
Hatty t34

[TheHumanHydra]

Justinian t34

Note here we get the first settler the same turn you did, but with the clams improved as well.

Justinian t46

Got lazy with the workers at the end. No idea how that compares to your sims, and my internal metrics for Standard speed need recalibration, since I only ever play Quick. Also you could maybe chop instead of whip the second settler if you wanted; I didn't try that.

I'd pick Justinian over Hatty (if not over Frederick); I think you're in a better place t34 and it looks like you'll get your second settler faster. Hatty basically has one trait, Spi, because the other is duplicated by the UB. Justinian gives you Spi and Imp, and doesn't seem to slow your start despite lacking Agriculture. So you have to really value Cre if you want to pick Hatty. (I suppose, on the flip side, you could say Hatty instead lacks a UB because its effect is duplicated by a trait, in which case you're comparing Cre to Imp, and Cre has always come out better in the rankings. Imp does fit well with FT's 'we have crap land, we need to grab more of it' theory, though.)

[TheHumanHydra]

- Hatshepsut (CRE/SPI) Incan (Agri/Myst/Quecha/Terrace)
- Justinian (SPI/IMP) Japanese (Fish/Wheel/Samauri/Pagoda)
- Frederick (PHI/ORG) Egyptian (Agri/Wheel/War Chariot/Obelisk)

This is base BTS, right? So it's Shale Plant, not Pagoda (not that a shale plant is very remarkable).

[Old Harry]

Aha, how did you manage to get the workboat and warrior? Did you delay the worker to sync with AH or do something else?

Your t46 save isn't working for me.

[Commodore]

So have a final word?

[Old Harry]

So have a final word?

Probably not going to get a chance to improve my simming, so I'll go with my gut and against all my fast-start plans and confirm Freddy of Egypt.

[TheHumanHydra]

Good choice. Sorry about the save, not sure what went wrong there. I went work boat first and didn't worry about the timing of the worker. It seemed to work out okay anyway.

[Fintourist]

Heeey,

I think you made a right choice. I was earlier going to suggest that due to nature of the game you should just pick the pair that seems the most fun to you and maybe after that start thinking competitively. However, as I've already expressed, my opinion is that in reality the game is more fun when one is doing well and has as many options as possible --> In the end one should just be dull, pick the strongest pairing and also put some effort into micro so that one stays relevant.

Regarding the above, when I look at the start it seems clear that worker techs will be a real bottleneck and thus Agri/Wheel has actually a lot of value. And there is also a clear synergy between Egypt and sheep start, which I like. I fear that you don't get a chance to utilize the obelisk, but who knows, it's always possible that other civs delay religion techs as well.

I typically consider SPI really fun and you also know how to make real use of it, but this being no RtR, the trait is significantly weaker and I don't miss it that much. Not having a real early trait hurts, but I think that it is acceptable because:

• If the map is tight, you have tools in form of war chariots to somehow deal with the situation
  
• If the map is spacious, IMP/EXP have less value as commerce/maintenance becomes the bottle neck of expansion and ORG (and PHI) will be useful during the extremely important late expansion phase.
  

PHI is also a trait that suits you as you are typically a bigger great person enthusiast than me. Try to have a first version of GP strategy in place already at ~ t30-40 (not a GP micro plan though!). In previous games I have always felt that we should have really thought about it a couple of turns earlier and accepted slightly bigger sacrifices in order to get the first academy (or GA) faster.

I guess my hypothesis for a general strategy in this game would be:

1. Brutally optimize early speed at all costs with the first 3-4 cities
   
2. Start playing greedy and establish advantageous borders with the help of War Chariots
   
3. Enjoy ORG and be the first civ to 15 cities
   
4. Kill the weakest neighbor and be cheesy with PHI in the mid-game
   
5. Profit
   

Alternatively use war chariots to kill someone and have fun in that way


I'm currently working ~80 hours per week with no end in sight so I'm no real use.. Of course mail me if something. Have fun guys!

[Krill]

I'm currently working ~80 hours per week with no end in sight so I'm no real use.. Of course mail me if something. Have fun guys!

Hopefully you're still useful to your boss otherwise that might change