[Spoiler] PB42: Rusten and mackoti play Krill playing Bismarck of Portugal

[Krill]

HRE, maybe Spain? Japan might work as well. Or even just go straight Netherlands.

[Krill]

Still not picked?

Sumeria. Keep mid game options open, potential for religious gambit, and save 90 hammers on popping borders, granary, and courthouse. Only works if you need Agri though.

[Rusten]

I'm already looking forward to your complaints about the turnpace.

You sold me on Sumeria.

[Krill]

Two turns per day until T30, then turn a day until someone wins. Keep that up, game is fine. Otherwise I will hunt you down and nail you to your desk.

I think OT4E screwed himself when he first picked a leader. RtR mod went through a period where snakepicks were all civs if you were at the top of the pick, because there are far fewer good civs dependent on the start, and the traits are all pretty much playable. I think it has been so long since a snakepick has been done that people forgot that.

I think I'd go with Sumeria with this crowd, but if he needs Hunting (I'm not sure if the starts are mirrored, they could be after the PB38 debacle and this start is generic enough anything can work with it) then he might Baulk at the tech timings; BW wouldn't be completed until around T32 when he throws out a settler via a double worker opening, but he wouldn't have anything for two workers to do without BW if it's mirrored. All the Hunting Mining civs are either boring or late game, although Ethiopia would give C1/D1/D2/D3 with 2 free strikes. I'm unsure if that actually makes it useful except as a giant "fuck you" sign.

[Krill]

Fuck night shifts.

I want a turn to play.

Given that all the tile improvements go the NE, I reckon that is the likely placement of the second city given the option of splitting off the pig. Got 30 turns to play with, what looks to be coast to the SW, start with a scout and Fishing. I say it is better to use the built warrior to explore NE and cycle the scout around from the SE to the NW. Anyone think differently?

[Krill]

Alternative openings are also possible. Hunting>BW still, but after finishing the first worker, growing straight to size 4 via 2 warriors (on last two turns of growth, work pig/sheep/plains forest, then pigs/sheep/plains forest hill), revolting to slavery and one pop whipping the second worker eot25 leads to a size 3 capital and a double chopped settler eot29. Down two worker turns and one pop, up a revolt, a settler move (that means 2 out of the 3 turns to grow the missing pop are in hand with the slavery plan) and a turn on tech (so that's really 2 turns on tech due to the revolt), ahead by 5 warrior turns worth of scouting and a turns worth of production/overflow worth 9 food and 13 hammers. This plan diverges from the original plan on T10, so that is 11 turns of scouting to inform the decision, but I think this plan is better.

To put this into perspective: second settler due eot38 with no additional chops and capital at size 4 with a third warrior built, and a mine 66 of the capital.

[Krill]

Options for scout movement on T0 are SW, E-SE, S, E-NE. I think it makes more sense to check the forest 2SE and grassland 2SW to see if they are freshwater or not, as they look to be adjacent to coast of some description, then settle, and then make the decision on scouting direction. I'm looking for maximum information on second and potential third city locations, to see if I want to throw out a quick third city. If that is coast to the south, then I am going to get a solid view once borders expand eot4 and should probably send the scout in another direction. I'm going to have limited views east or west due to flatland and forests, so probably better to pick on of those and then cycle north. I think east might be better (via E-SE), because if I'm going to whip the second worker, I'll have a fair bit of time to scout with the first warrior and the second warrior can cover the settler. This way the warrior will be able to cover the east if the scout can't, there is redundancy if the scout gets eaten by a bear and dependent on the terrain shown on T0 we can review the likelihood of culture getting us enough information or not.

[mackoti]

Options for scout movement on T0 are SW, E-SE, S, E-NE. I think it makes more sense to check the forest 2SE and grassland 2SW to see if they are freshwater or not, as they look to be adjacent to coast of some description, then settle, and then make the decision on scouting direction. I'm looking for maximum information on second and potential third city locations, to see if I want to throw out a quick third city. If that is coast to the south, then I am going to get a solid view once borders expand eot4 and should probably send the scout in another direction. I'm going to have limited views east or west due to flatland and forests, so probably better to pick on of those and then cycle north. I think east might be better (via E-SE), because if I'm going to whip the second worker, I'll have a fair bit of time to scout with the first warrior and the second warrior can cover the settler. This way the warrior will be able to cover the east if the scout can't, there is redundancy if the scout gets eaten by a bear and dependent on the terrain shown on T0 we can review the likelihood of culture getting us enough information or not.

I would go  E-NE and to see if worth moving a turn.

[Krill]

Moving a turn will not speed up hooking the pig; being a turn closer is countered by spending the turn moving. It loses the plains sheep, the pig becomes inner ring so it's harder to share, and the scout will not uncover the full BFC of the new capital site because the forests block view of 5 of the tiles. It will be easier to see in game if the tile NE of that tile is a forest though: it might not be, in which case it gives the view on a further 2 tiles. I count 8 forests minimum for that location, more likely 9 (if that forests that may not be a forest exists).

What is lost though? Plains sheep, 2 plains hills, 3 plains, 2 grassland and 2 lakes. And a desert incense. Mack, I don't disagree that it's not difficult to see a moving improving the other tiles but the plains sheep?

[mackoti]

Moving a turn will not speed up hooking the pig; being a turn closer is countered by spending the turn moving. It loses the plains sheep, the pig becomes inner ring so it's harder to share, and the scout will not uncover the full BFC of the new capital site because the forests block view of 5 of the tiles. It will be easier to see in game if the tile NE of that tile is a forest though: it might not be, in which case it gives the view on a further 2 tiles. I count 8 forests minimum for that location, more likely 9 (if that forests that may not be a forest exists).

What is lost though? Plains sheep, 2 plains hills, 3 plains, 2 grassland and 2 lakes. And a desert incense. Mack, I don't disagree that it's not difficult to see a moving improving the other tiles but the plains sheep?

lakes, deser incense and plains are very bad tiles so you have just 2 grasland and the sheep.Perhaps you see a resource a deer for example.....or is not forested and see a flood plain or anithing else which gave something and long term is worth to move.Why i say this becasue on this random maps ahving a strong capitol is very importa and usaly til 1200 is carring the empire research...