Chairmen NobleHelium and Gaspar Demand Your Presence in the Collective

[Serdoa]

I don't want to comment on what I feel is right in that situation, but just say that (generally speaking) if you plan to do something but are second-guessing yourself if it is the right thing to do, it probably is not.

[Gaspar]

I don't want to comment on what I feel is right in that situation, but just say that (generally speaking) if you plan to do something but are second-guessing yourself if it is the right thing to do, it probably is not.

I agree with this. Though I think in this case we're not so much second-guessing whether or not it is right (Treaty gives 10t of peace - N7 have received 10t of peace) but whether 1. Its worth the guaranteed-to-be-annoying moralizing from Seven in the tech thread and 2. Whether it is expedient given that we have been wishing for a mackoti/N7 war and we just got one.

[Gaspar]

So we debated and hemmed and hawed and well... Ishamel must have his whale:

[SIZE="6"]The Battle of Latte Isles[/SIZE]

Forgot to take a shot before the first battle, but the assembled forces:

The Collective
2 Swordsmen
10 Horse Archers

The Bad Guys
2 G1 Longbows
1 Archer

C1/Cover Sword vs. G1 Longbow (Full fortify) @ 0.02% LOSS (LB down to 3.7/6)
C1/Cover Sword vs. G1 Longbow (5% fortify) @ 0.04% LOSS (LB down to 5.2/6)
C2 Horse Archer Vs, G1 Longbow (5.2/6, 5% fortify) @ 2.2% LOSS (LB down to 1.3/6)
Unpromoted HA vs. G1 Longbow (3.7/6, Full Fortify) @ 12.1% LOSS (LB to 2.9/6)
Unpromoted HA vs. Unpromoted Archer (Full fortify) @ 10.6% LOSS (Archer to 1.3/3)
C2 HA vs G1 Longbow (2.9/6, Full Fortify) @ 42.2% WIN (and unlocks the Heroic Epic)
C2 HA vs. Unpromoted Archer (Full fortify) @ 95.7% WIN
C2 HA vs G1 Longbow (1.3/6 5% fortify) @98.7% WIN

And Noble has bagged the White Whale:



The new city of Sea Hive comes with a Granary and Courthouse... and a whopping 9 turns of revolt. Goody.



More later...

[zakalwe]

9 turns of revolt

[fluffyflyingpig]

More bloodshed to follow of will you attempt a peace deal?

[NobleHelium]

The rare 4-way cultural clusterfuck:

[Gaspar]

What to say about the rest of the turn? Well, we've sort of reached the underpants gnome stage of the game.



In all seriousness, we have maybe one last round in the chamber that we'll probably fire at mackoti to hope to keep him a bit even with N7 and then its hide yo kids time. We pushed Construction up on the research plan and polished it off this turn. We probably go ahead and push towards PP as originally suggested after this, though Engineering is a decent option just for mobility sake even if pikes probably won't feature heavily and Castles are already mostly obsolete. We'll take a turn or two to regroup and see what if anything else is lightly garrisoned along the coast. I do not believe N7 can take anything of ours with their current military - we are well-garrisoned in both border areas.

I think 7 made a pretty good point in the PB7 Diplo thread - the highest cost of war is that you make an enemy. To a large extent, it is in neither of our teams best interests to have fought each other back and forth over the last 30 turns (though I will note we're at +3 cities net - not bad for the backwards guys.) But we've essentially spent all game pissing each other off. The settlement of Watcher's Eye nee Jest is Infinite was basically a giant slap in the face. Then we threatened and took 3 cities for peace. They threatened and took a city back. We've been back and forth in the AI diplo. Its just been a pretty constant source of agitation. Maybe we'd have been better off holing up, trying to tech up and then take some land off Lewwyn. But we're humans and we're irrational beings. It happens.

Anyway, I'll leave you with the argument of the turn - where do we build Heroic Epic? There are essentially 3 candidates.




The Colony is Noble's preferred candidate and unquestionably the superior city:



Normally it has the horses as well.

The Labyrinth is neither of our preferred candidate, but a strong site at least partly due to limited utility in addition to solid hammer potential.




Unity Lair is my preferred candidate, pretty much due its much superior proximity to the jungle - the primary conflict area.



Anyway, we spent a good hour arguing about that. Good times had by all.

Here's demos, because why not?



Aw yeah, who's #1 in population?

[NobleHelium]

We're actually #1 in real population too.

I'm pretty sure we're building the HE in UL.

[NobleHelium]

Whelps, N7 just offered peace asking for all our cities.

[Gaspar]

So N7 sent us this trade offer:







Let me whip out the Secret Decoder Ring for this one...



Yeah, that's it. What is our response?



Sounds about right.

For the record, when you read this after N7, we had a similar raiding party headed for mackoti's coast in hopes of razing the GLH city. So we weren't trying to play Kingmaker here. However, after you sent us that trade offer and threw all your toys out of the pram we had no choice but to recall them. Lewwyn can attest because the Galleons were visible to him.

Also for the record, Construction acheived, 960 AD, bitches!



So N7 gave a city to mackoti for peace - they've basically conceded. Just idiotic - they easily still could have won this game. Woe is fucking them. Anyway, they took the 10t of peace with mack and reacted like so at Watcher's Eye:



This wasn't my best work. So let me type it out clearer:

Collective Forces in Watcher's Eye
8 Longbows
3 Horse Archers
2 Bowmen
1 Spearman

Bully Forces that can hit Watcher's Eye
9 Knights
2 Longbows
2 Spearmen
1 Musketman
1 Crossbowman

So to win next turn, they'd essentially need a flawless kill ratio, which isn't going to happen given most of the LBs are CG2/CG3 and the city is walled. Certainly, it can fall. But probably not next turn. The greater issues are the cities of Labor Network and Social Artery, which probably cannot hold in a concerted push by N7 to fork. They've had a warrior in the area recently, so they know that we're lightly defended there. We're obviously pushing everything we can towards the area. Galleons are huge in reinforcing.

We're on Engy now, then we'll start limping to Rifling. There's a very, very real possibility we're eliminated in 20t. Making this so of course ensures mackoti wins. But I suspect they've already made that determination.

Basically, here's F1 before ending turn - it really tells you everything you need to know. Well that and N7 researched Rifling this turn.



Demos: