RBPB3 - Gandhi of the Egyptians

[spacemanmf]

Upgrades a a very bad use of gold in this game, because, well, 5 WC>Cuir upgrades is about 5 extra turns to get to Rifling.

So what's your shrine-boosted income now? Who are you giving it to?

[Krill]

Hindu shrine is making like 35 base gpt, only have a market in that city though. Bank is due in about 4 turns. I'm running a surplus of 145ish gpt...but I'm receiving 20 gpt from England because I gave them a GP for their shrine. That gold is being given to Maya and Carthage to fund tech. I have a slight bone of contention that Mali haven;t done much to fund tech, but OTOH, they have done exactly what I asked them to, and done exactly what I want them do, so I shouldn't really complain. You could call them my tools, but I wouldn't go that far IMO.

Really, my economy sucks, but I don't know how much of that is down to the rather crap land I have. I did make a conscious decision to aim for State Property and Bio asap early in the game, because then I won't have to fear cottages getting bombed down, so my lack of cottages has several explanations. But I've just grown to 7th in crop yield, 5th in MFG (it's dropping, but I should be back up there soon and there are...4 civs in golden ages), and my GNP sucks, but then, it's a useless figure for a techer/funder arrangement.

My real advantage lies in the fact that if all 6 PAT members push MFG via SP, then spreading religions becomes much easier for us...and it is really easy for me to get another 2GP out (England owes me one). And SPI gives me a measure of flexibility that can't be matched in this game, or calculated. If India had managed to bleed me dry, well, I lose no more than 200 gold flipping from Bureaucracy to NH and drafting out 10 or so Muskets. Could other civs do that? No, so they would have had to build more units to deal with the threat. I didn't have to build those units, so that is a saving that won't be seen.

[Krill]

Hi mate,

Sorry for not speaking earlier, but I needed a further turn to explore an option or two. And having sufficiently explored, I'm going to call your bluff that you can settle the locations before I can...And I will say that I will not found a city that is not adjacent to the corn, as you could quite easily plant close and try to culturally overpower that corn tile. Nor would I be particularly pleased with you planting on that hill and splitting my cities. I want a city on the tile 2NE of that hill you wanted, which I don't think is greedy, considering that tile is only 6 tiles from my capital. I also will admit that I don't want to make that cow site of yours useless, but I will do so if we do not come to a suitable agreement.

Another important point is that I am now at peace with ottomans and India. No more 2 front war, at least for 10 turns. And a fair few Cuirs on the way down.

I will likely play my turn at some point today, but I don't want to just go and trample on your toes and settle the cities where I see fit. If you think we can sort out some agreement, maybe involving other land that I can help you settle like the land to your north east which Maya still has a claim on, I will see what I can do. I'm pretty sure I can get you a couple of city locations over there...and if Maya does not have a claim on it, then rest assured that I'll be placing a claim on it instead.

Krill

[/bastard]

No Byz settlers in sight, and I could declare and destroy 2 workers...

[Krill]

Having thought over the situation, I've declared war on Byz, but for only one purpose: so that he doesn't log in, move the workers SW to road then declare war himself, killing my sentry WC. He already knows about the message above...so this is just me preemptive declaration.

[Krill]

Diplo with Byz. Let's see how it pans out.

Heya,

Ah, don't we already have an NAP? I'm fairly certain that you need to give me 10 turns of notice...

I'm happy to negotiate borders further, and equally willing to fight you to the death. I'm not going to fight a limited war with you, so it's one or the other. I haven't really had my heart in this game for a long while, and I get the impression that you haven't either, so some sort of apocalyptic conflict might be kind of fun. Your last email didn't have a counter-proposal for border setting in it, so the ball is still in your court there. I can take that corn site in a turn or two now, so you should offer something before I have to move my settler.

Be aware that if you capture those workers, then it's the death fight option by default.

Also I'm not going to make a one-sided NAP with everyone in PAT unless you guys start sending me all of your techs. As you said yourself, you're the only person I really have any reason to fight, so let's keep it simple and not bog down our personal diplomacy with a half-dozen treaties involving other civs that I'm not going to keep track of. I seriously doubt that you really want to wage unceasing war with me over such an overtly pointless condition, so I suggest you drop it.

I'm perfectly willing to consider your declaration a simple misunderstanding and ignore the broken NAP, but that's contingent on you offering a reasonable counter offer and leaving my workers alone. Up to you whether a few disputed tiles and 60 hammers of worker poaching is worth throwing out any chance either of us has at winning the game. Although perhaps the game was lost for both of us a while ago already...

Anyway I won't be able to play until I get home from work tomorrow at about 5PM EST, so you have some time to decide. In the meantime, looks like I'll actually have to spend some time getting acquainted with the war movement rules.

-Bobchillingworth

Bob,

Let's start at the top. I have absolutely no problem with you joining PAT. IIRC, you refused some time after CUDDLE formed, because you didn't want to seem like you were backstabbing? If you were to join PAT or were already part of it, that would have changed the whole complexion of the discussion.

I'm also perfectly happy to offer you peace now, regardless of the out come of the border. And truth be told, I did forget about the NAP...but as I simply logged in, declared war, logged out, I think you could see it as a rather cynical way to ensure a 10 turn cool down period, if you wanted to try and break it. Because now that you remind me that we have an NAP, I don't want to break it, and shall offer peace forthwith.

So, I see two options as it is. If you look at the picture attached, grey dots are you suggested settling positions, which I don't like, frankly. The white dot is where I will plant a city, simply because it is the only one that makes sense due to other city locations and food. Yellow dots are the middle ground, and I can plant them sooner than you can get any cities down to block them. Red is me settling aggressively, black is me just trying to piss you off. Blue is where I'd prefer to settle, even though it is worse than either red or the left hand yellow spot. Why? Because it allows you to at least get the green spot to the left, and I can ensure that you get the two right hand green spots as well from Maya. Neither right hand green spots has any over lap with my city to the north.

The upside of these city sites is that you don't have to deal with a food less city, but also, here's the real catch. I have a settler on the red dot this turn. I could found it, or black, and then both of us are probably in a world of hurt. The only tile you can move to to stop me settling either position is the left hand green dot, and that is if you can settle this turn, because I can't settle until next turn. So really, the left hand side of the map is a fait accompli, it just depends how much we both want to haggle over it.

The right hand side of the map, I said previously, I don't really have a claim on it, but I'm sure you will understand if that position changes if you were to try and attack me for settling on the left. The two sites I dot mapped are pretty much decent border cities that mean between us, we could both have useful, productive cities with food, and a defensible culture border.And if you want to join PAT, just ask...I'll send my units down to help you defend against anything India can throw at you.

Krill

[Krill]

Guys, you know of any good, current articles on slavery, and when not to use it?

[Krill]

This is what we settled on in the end, with Bob agreeing to settle the left blue dot after my cultural borders are established. Below is how I intend to establish them firmly at 100 culture points in 15 turns:

Spread religion, chop Temple/Theatre (and granary if I can afford it). Revolt to Free Speech for 5 turns, work an Artist. That makes 9 base culture, for 18 adjusted, for 90 culture in 5 turns. Evil or what?

[Krill]

I need about another 5 settlers and at least another 10 workers...hmmm. 1100 hammers...great...where the hell do I find those?

Answer: I probably won't.

[Darkmantle]

I need about another 5 settlers and at least another 10 workers...hmmm. 1100 hammers...great...where the hell do I find those?

Answer: I probably won't.

Where is easy, the bodies of your loyal subjects. Why and opportunity cost are the more interesting questions.

[Krill]

Well, I have figured out how to settle 4 of the 6 sites I want...I just settled 2 of them, pics to come later. The third has a settler being built from the capital in 2 turns, and the fourth is that city site that Portugal "poached" from me earlier. I'm going to settle it, and 5 turns later follow through with the Free Speech plan outlined above...I'm considering if I should revolt to Merc as well for those 5 turns...130 culture, and I will very quickly and easily take control of all of the tiles around my city, and probably around his front city as well. That means he will have a seriously hard time.