[Spoiler] Any volunteers for a human sacrifice? Brennus of the Aztecs, by Krill

[Qgqqqqq]

sorry for double post @selrahc i suspect lurkers are either too polite like zargon, disgusted enough that they abandoned RB, or enjoying the friendly atmosphere of other sites. As for me, i ignored cfc because i disagree with evreything they say and the ninja basically trolled. For now threads like Krills and old reads like Pocketbeetles keep me here.
thanks krill for a great thread what does RVC mean?
will you still read this thread and respond?
@darrel what reasons?
what happened to the original pb5

[Krill]

OK, I'm going to post a couple of the turn reports here for posterity...

Turn 107 - Rebirth

OK, I'm going to be missing a few turns worth of updates between my RB thread, and this new start here. I do have pictures, but I don't have the will power to write the reports for what are in effect minor turns. So this is where we return to the story:

This is perhaps not the most interesting thing to see. There is no race to hold the jungle, no real risk of losing this part of the map to anyone else. But I don't want to pay for any new cities right now, and this city will cost me an additional 5gpt just from distance maintenance, and probably another 5gpt from number of cities maintenance. I would save 2gpt from supply costs, but that's not enough to make me settle the city right now.

In 3 turns however, I will have a missionary to spread religion, Buddhism, into the city. Then it is worth settling the city and hooking up the plains cow and horse, build a monastery for more culture per turn and to spread missionaries to other cities. That makes this area of the map much safer to hold and economically viable. Note that all of my chariots are spread around this area and I already have the road network in place, and the archer capable of taking CG1.

You can see in the corner that azza has settled a city, but I can confirm that it is on a 1 tile wide isthmus: azza is playing defensive against me. he can settle cities south east of that city for seafood and other reasonable cities that I would not care about, but if he tries to settle north towards Opportunism and take that corn I want to smack him back down.

So, there are the numbers that you might be interested in after missing a few turns. Making 40hpt for the next 6 turns get's Crapital to 286 hammers. Chopping 2 third ring forests (888 and 444) gives me 16 base hammers each, which is 64 adjusted hammers. 350 hammers dead on. Admittedly I'm not chopping that last grass forest which I really should do, to replace it with a cottage, but I can do that once maths is in for an aqueduct (OK, this is probably the one time I'll say it's a good build). Note that this means I will not be able to put the city back into commerce mode for another 6 turns.

Tech is currently set to Alphabet. I think that the only other tech I could consider to be a reasonable choice is HBR, if needed for a war. Alphabet gives me OB, and Commodore is a good partner, as OB gives both of us another 14 commerce. That's a 10% boost just with one OB, and it's helping one of the players with the lowest GNP, so it's not really helping my opposition. Plus the ability to turn hammers to beakers, and it's the obvious tech. But Alphabet is 468 adjusted beakers, which is 3 turns of 100% science for me. That means that even now I need about 220 gold saved to do that. With the tenth city, expect 250 saved gold needed. With 6 turns saving gold even at current rates I'm looking at saving gold until T113...exactly when Crapital can go back onto commerce duty anyway.

T122 GP. Still saying it, and still calculating, because I keep on screwing this count up. Once Crapital is finished with the GL, I can put DF back onto the grass hill. Weird point, that grass forest at Crapital could probably be put into the SoZ if it's starting to look like I can actually finish it and I feel like it's worth the forest chop.

I can get the SoZ in 3 turns. Make 17hpt for 1 turn, 18hpt for 1 turn, and then I will need to make 20hpt for the last turn. That is done by moving the grass farm onto the wines or the forest next turn, then T109 moving that pop onto the northern grass hill, and then build the NE. Easy, but question is does that screw with GNAP?

Another archer for safety. No more chariots needed. Is it worth building a library here? Not really. Walls? Hell no. Another reason I need Alphabet, it's build research or choke on unit costs. Until then, build a few archers which are needed to bulk out defences in the jungle area. Fairly boring, but it's valuble.

No comment. Still pretty bad city.

OK, this is where things have been at their most interesting whilst I've been...in consideration. The lighthouse needs a further 17 hammers to complete, so 9+8 is enough to do that. Next turn it can give up the wines (to WTF?) and the turn after is going to focus back on growth, commerce, and building a warrior for city garrison happiness. Should not have a problem with that. Then I'll have to make a decision about moia and stone...

It's growing...finally. Decision between the granary and lighthouse is a fairly hard one, but I'm saving that forest chop for maths. Beyond size 3 there aren't any good tiles to work, so the granary doesn't make much sense to me when I'm basically almost size 2. There is an argument for mining and working the desert hills, as I currently do have 3 workers running around the jungle area doing very little, and they could be mining those hills. I just would prefer the workers to be in position to help defend a border that is strategically important, instead of, well, mining desert hills. Coastal tiles are not great either, but even with the slavery nerf they are stored hammers in a potential war and the commerce isn't a total loss.

There are 2 workers mining the plains hill, it will be finished the turn after growing to size 2, and will complete the walls. The Buddhist missionary spread religion this turn for a border pop due eot T116. I can farm the three grassland tiles adjacent to the lakes for a slightly better food surplus, but this city is so far away that the population will be more expensive. I would probably be better off commerce wise by just working the plains hill until the granary was completed, which with a forest chop from the grass forest isn't difficult. Then I'd likely grow the city on farms. And I could easily do al of this with the 2 workers that area mining the plains hill.

The last city I own, currently. By the time this city hits size 2 the borders still won't have popped, but it will have another cottage to work on the forest.

[Krill]

[SIZE="6"]Turn 108 - This Time with Graphs[/SIZE]

So, as the lurkers start to join, I suppose I need to start putting some thought into these turns instead of just randomly clicking.

Here you can see that it is possible for Pingo to road and kill my chariot, so I have to move it, or cover it. There isn't anything I can cover it with that is good enough to hold against the spear, my only archer is 4 turns away. I can move it 2 or 6, and 6 is probably the smarter move, but I do have 3 chariots at Opportunism, and a further 3 at NS that can come toe the area in case of conflict, so instead I move 2 and keep an eye on the tile with the axe, spear, and workers.

If Pingo get aggressive (I don't think they will, I think they have to keep an eye on Commodore and azza), I can move the archer towards the hill and promote CG1 and the city will hold quite easily. I'm still making 14hpt in SC, GNAP is about to finish the light house, WTF? finishes the SoZ next turn...not worried.

So azza has a workboat out. Looks like he is going to be searching for Mick and scooty.

Oh, tasty. Pain to actually irrigate, but not impossible, if you hold the north eastern river...which isn't likely. I expect Nazul to have all of that river.

As much as I'd love OB with Pingo, I don't think they have any reason to give it to me with their city on the western continent, so I don't expect the wb to go meet yuris. But I do look forward to know just how sparse my coastal waters are.

I ought to be aware that with a lack of tiles to work, this city is quite likely to have no choice but to work scientists above size 15. I think it will max out at size 16 with 1 scientist, question is can I keep enough health hooked to not starve at size 16...

Interesting point here is to note how I have a size 15 city at T108. I only have 3 happy res hooked and one of them required a beeline. CHM gives 2 happy, Palace gives 1. The key really is the (ab)use of Monarchy, as HR is giving me 4 happy and wine the 5th. Would a size 10 city be unreasonable? Not really, that's simply a good city population for this stage of the game. Even without wines, size 15 would only need another 15 hammer warrior and for me to pay for it with gold. This city is just an example about how to abuse HR and how it can sometimes be a viable alternative to Rep, in low food situations.

T122 GP. I think it's fair to say just how important this city is what is keeping my economy alive and not on life support.

Barracks. Granary. SoZ. And then HE. City specialization FTW. But interesting to note that I could have kept this as a cottage city, and I'd probably not have had a problem continuing teching even with the expanse of cities I currently hold. All because of this city...

This could have been a viable HE city. I could even have been a quarter of the way through the HE, if I'd ignored the SoZ. The problem is that the output from this city reaches its maximum much sooner than WTF? would, and the maximum is much less than WTF? as well. But it would have been more than good enough to continually pump out HA, and then siege later in the game. But this would have allowed me to focus WTF? back onto cottages and teching; growing it vertically is not a problem, there is enough happiness to work all of the grasslands and then grow onto the plains for cottages as well.

Is this a mistake, or is it a valid choice? We'll find out later on, but with TT enabled, and me running reasonably in beakers, I'm going to bet that the hammers are more useful long term, even if right now I could have done with the commerce.

Still junk. Still total junk...actually, I think I'm going to omit this city from future turn reports from now on, unless I have something specific to say about it.

And there we see the lighthouse finishing 60/60. After this turn it will need 10 food to grow, and can make 5fpt max. So...I moved the warrior out of WTF? towards GNAP. WTF? is currently 10/10 on happiness even without a unit in the city. GNAP will still build a warrior next, but will build it too slow for itself, but in time for when I want to grow WTF? Warrior due eot T113.

Plains hill, grass farm or grass cottage? Farm gives 4 less commerce and delayed cottage growth (so minimum of 16 commerce over the course of the game), but 4 more hammers than the cottage, but is 16 hammers behind the mine, yet 8 commerce ahead over 8 turns if working the mine at size 3. Working the cottage at size 3 means 5 turn growth to size 4. I think I can afford to lose the commerce from the cottage, but will work it at size 3 and grow straight to size 4. With that forest chop, even without maths I think that the lighthouse finishes before growth to size 5, and then I can build the granary in 12 turns, 10 with a plains cottage *snigger*.

It's starting to look like azza isn't going to attack me. Still, I want a G2 archer or two around this city to hold the hills, something WTF? can help me with after the SoZ and HE. This is my likely FP city, so I need to protect it...

First archer that I think I can spare, which is probably my fourth, goes to protect this city. So that means something like an archer reaching the city T115. Not that I really see the point in rushing archers here, against WC or C1 swords, CG1 archers don't really do much. Help to bulk out numbers needed to take the city, sure, but beyond that...just catapult fodder and Nazul already have maths and masonry so are not far from Construction if they want it. Still...

ORG would be worth 12 gpt. Vanilla FIN worth 24 commerce per turn, which is basically, 24 gpt right now (but maybe 26 bpt at 100% science but I'm not arguing that point). Vanilla FIN is worth 6 cpt. Rivers are giving me 25 cpt, the main river giving me 21 of that. 15 of those tiles are cottages or wines.

Still, prioritising light houses and working a few coastal tiles would probably up that to about the same as ORG, so it would come down to the cheap buildings. TBH, I can see how ORG is better than FIN in a fair few cases, but my productive core is along a single river. If it weren't, then FIN would be making the output the same. FIN is the safer still IMO, but ORG might edge it with the cheaper buildings, especially now it gets the cheap library to go with the lighthouse and court house, in some peoples opinions. Me, I don't know if either is better. T-hawk definitely came up good here.

Top GNP isn't particularly scary, because I don't think that scooty have many cities, particularly large land area, or crop yield. Admittedly, to hit those heights, they are working specs that don't make food thus depressing the crop yield numbers. And look, I'm fourth with low culture, sprawling empire, and saving gold. Could be much worse.

Pingo area about my GNP but they already have 2cpt trade routes. Nazul are much higher but have at least 3 less cities, probably 4 less, I can't remember, but have Currency, double gold and not many cottages. They will fall off in the medium term. Commodore's sucks, which is why he won't refuse my OB offer, azza is going to have to balance horizontal growth, vertical growth as he just got into HR, and military with me and Pingo sitting on his doorstep. scooty are going to be fine here but need to focus on growth, and that always means not running the specs. Still, that means we play out the next 30 turns and see who did best, and I'm not going to bet against my current position.

azza is doing surprisingly well here, Pingo are paying for their hard slaving...

azza with low CY but still sloping up...I reckon his GNP and MFG drops shortly, but he plants a couple of new cities. Commodore growing pop, but he just doesn't have the tiles to make it work long term IMO.

Commodore is going to go hurt someone again, Nazul are just sitting their in builder mode but I don't really know what they are doing, azza isn't worrying about pushing back at Opportunism. Pingo have enough to either be opportunistic, or to defend their northern cities strongly. With Commodore's power being so high, I'm betting on the latter.

[darrelljs]

The blog is far nicer to read, but its possible some people aren't over there I guess.

Darrell

[Ichabod]

The blog is far nicer to read, but its possible some people aren't over there I guess.

Darrell

I also find the blog very good to read, but it's way more annoying to comment.

[Krill]

They are the same reports...

[darrelljs]

I don't have to click a damn spoiler button every time I want to see a picture.

Darrell

[Krill]

Don't complain, it's the only exercise you get.

[roippi]

Well I like the collapsible boxes, so nyah.

[Krill]

Turn 109 - Bottoming Out

So, this turn is the bottom of the trough of my unit expenses. After this, I'm not going to be paying half as much for unit supply, and unit costs should stay stable as any new units I build will be replacing 0XP warriors that will be deleted. So long as I can pay fr the new city next turn, which should not be a problem.

Straight forward acknowledgement that coastal cities for me are not going to have much seafood.

As much as I would love that city from the point of view of trade routes...not happening.

Azza is not in a rush to get that ivory hooked up.

Pingo made contact with Nazul south of my city of NS. Looks like I know where the Nazul archer went to.

I need to start thinking what I'm going to do with Crapital after the GL is finished. Most likely going to build missionaries, I need to spread religion to at least 4 cities. but I'm probably going to want to settle a city for that pigs/clams site sooner rather than later, and that isn't dependent on IW and Calendar, so I think I'll get enough missionaries out then I'll build a settler in Crapital.

T122 GP. Keep on chugging along...T125 SP maybe, with 2 forest chops and no maths?

SoZ finished eot or lost to another player. Then onto the HE, but I need to decide just how fast I'm going to build it. Is there any reason to rush out the HE, or can I slow build it whilst growing, and just drop 2 chops into it? That's for next turn...

Just how many 3XP archers do I need? This will be the third. If I put 1 in every front city, I'll need 3. 4 if I include DP as a front city. But I will shortly have the ability to 1 turn 6XP archers from WTF? so I don't want too many "junk" archers. What else could I build? A lib? Why do I want that? Only reason I can think of is it's that or Parth...and even then I want the fail gold and not the wonder, but who on this map is going to build Parth? Cyneheard?

Really. Need. Culture. But it can wait for a missionary. Something to consider is that GNAP could take a tile or two from WTF? either the wine or the grass hill for a short while until the borders so pop. That affects all of the MM for WTF? so this is where things will get interesting. Once Crapital is finished with the hills, GNAP will give up hte cottage, slowing growth. That means it's probably best to focus on growing for the next 4 turns, hopefully getting close to size 8. I think GNAP can be 8 food short of growing to size 8 after eot t112, if it works the wines from t111, meaning that with the swap from the cottage to grass hill, it can grow eot t114.
That means that WTF? can continue to work the grass hills but can give up the plains hills, making 12 hpt base but +6fpt... enough for growth to size 10 by eot t116, and the HE by eot t114 with zero overflow, and 2 forest chops. That's one possible method.

Will have to consider giving the farm over to SC in the short term, though I do want to try and keep it until DP grows to size 3.

Anyone want to place any bets on this cities maintenance next turn at size 2?

More junk...

Next turn one missionary and a settler in no mans land disappear. That's 2 gold from unit costs and 1 from unit supply gone, so +3gpt. I'll then have 3 workers, and a chariot back into my culture, which saves me a further 2 gpt for +5gpt total, though with a new archer and another archer leaving my borders, I should only get +4gpt form the unit and supply costs. That should help offset the increased cost from city maintenance...

1/3 of top GNP, but I'm still ranked 4th. Breakeven bpt is about 50. With Crapital in ideal commerce set up, bpt rises to about 55. Intercontinental trade routes with Commodore raises that to, say, 70. Building research in SC and GNAP, pushes that back up to about 90 bpt. All from one tech.

That shows you just how far Opportunism is from Crapital.