[NO PLAYERS] PBEM58 lurkers and their kindhearted gentle thread

[WilliamLP]

2) Barbarians are a problem, and they don't get chariots, so axes are the most useful units due to both having the highest strength and their position in the rock-paper-scissors wheel.

This feels like just as much an issue to me in multi-player as single player. I know some players better than me prefer chariots to axes for barb defense but I enjoy how axes laugh off all barb threats and you never have to sweat about barbs appearing at the wrong time. (Where, if a barb spear shows up in the wrong place at the wrong time and you have only chariots and warriors around you could have a serious micro problem on your hands.) Chariots also lose more than the occasional bad die roll to a warrior.

Also if you can get 1 or 2 axes to W2, which isn't that hard, that can have a lot of value.

But, I don't think you're saying don't build axes in the early game, ever...

[SevenSpirits]

2) Barbarians are a problem, and they don't get chariots, so axes are the most useful units due to both having the highest strength and their position in the rock-paper-scissors wheel.

This feels like just as much an issue to me in multi-player as single player. I know some players better than me prefer chariots to axes for barb defense but I enjoy how axes laugh off all barb threats and you never have to sweat about barbs appearing at the wrong time. (Where, if a barb spear shows up in the wrong place at the wrong time and you have only chariots and warriors around you could have a serious micro problem on your hands.) Chariots also lose more than the occasional bad die roll to a warrior.

Also if you can get 1 or 2 axes to W2, which isn't that hard, that can have a lot of value.

But, I don't think you're saying don't build axes in the early game, ever...

It's a bigger deal in single player simply because most single player games are played with barbs on, while most multiplayer games are played with barbs off. In addition, single player games tend to be played at a higher difficulty level, making barbs more dangerous. Finally, when starting a new game directly on a level where the AIs get archery, the barbs get archery too. But in our multiplayer games, we typically start from WBsaves ("custom scenario") because we don't want to use an unedited script map, and WBsaves lack a place to store barb techs, so the barbs always start with nothing and therefore don't get archers.

I agree, if you are playing a multiplayer game with barbs on, axes are nice to defend against them. In this game they are off though.

[NobleHelium]

/facepalm

[Hashoosh]

Well his mindset seems to be that

A) He didn't invest anything more than 1 axe to take the city, while his opponent has built 2 chariots and an axe
B) He'll just take back the city with his Praetorians

Which is somewhat correct if you don't look at the game on a turn by turn basis. But there's a flaw in his logic in that the city now has value for him besides taking value away from his opponent, and while he'll have won a hammer exchange from when he took it, he's not losing a huge leg-up in taking the city.

Not to mention having hunting would likely have stopped this attack cold, but he's pushing into mathematics...

[WilliamLP]

/facepalm

Am I missing something or was moving 2 chariots next to the city extremely dumb?

[NobleHelium]

Well yeah. That's what I meant.

[Oxyphenbutazone]

How did CH get it into his head that he can flip over the table whenever something starts going against him?

[Bobchillingworth]

I can totally understand how CH is feeling; it's very difficult to maintain steady enthusiasm in a game when you get hit in the gut with the realization that your castle is about to come crashing down. It's painful enough to experience something you spent hours building being destroyed, but then the thought of having to continue for months from a crippled state is like adding insult to injury.


But like Oxy said in CH's thread, he really doesn't have a leg to stand on here. He started the stupid war in the first place, researched IW before Hunting even though his only military units were warriors and axes, and built infrastructure even when it was incredibly obvious that B4ndit would come seeking revenge. Heck, B4ndit's tactics have been so awful that CH might still manage to survive this attack without losing a city, if only he would fight halfway intelligently and stop building fucking libraries or whatever in cities about to be hit by chariots.

[Bobchillingworth]

Heh, and now he moved his workers in the wilderness, instead of leaving one on the FP and allowing him to kill the chariot on the attack. Ah well, you tried Seven

[SevenSpirits]

Heh, and now he moved his workers in the wilderness, instead of leaving one on the FP and allowing him to kill the chariot on the attack. Ah well, you tried Seven

Well, he wouldn't necessarily be able to kill the chariot on attack - B4ndit could just move it back after capturing. But he can build a 2t warrior there with the plains hill plant and PFH so I think he would have a good chance to hold the city. Another option he could consider if he just wanted to abandon the city was move the workers into the city and block with the axe, so the workers could get home significantly more quickly.

I think what he did was reasonable too. If he's able to get archery for an archer whip in the holy city, maybe that's worth it, and it means he can't afford to work the PFH over the cottage.

I didn't want to tell him what to do at all, just encourage him to look at the situation with dispassionate tactical eyes rather than destroying himself too much in frustration.