[Spoiler] PB42: Rusten and mackoti play Krill playing Bismarck of Portugal

[Krill]

And to make it official: Concede Gavagai. This is a test game, and I've seen enough to be comfortable with what I wanted to see tested.

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

What of the naval changes? These are just now coming to realization for the players.

[Krill]

The whole purpose of the naval changes are to do one thing: Stop the only reply to one player rushing Astro, be rush Astro yourself. That's it. OH has put the Astro double bulb to good use, but every other player has been able to balance tech, scouting, and metagame knowledge to find a reply to that. Apart from DZ but then, there is always going to be a victim in these games.

The changes to the privateer, the SoL and Ironclad are all untestable at this point anyway. Well, not the privateer, but we know how the privateer works against galleons. It's a 6 strength unit versus a 4 strength unit. Combat doesn't exactly need much testing. It was all about the bulb strategy.

[Krill]

To explain that more fully in terms of this game: if we were playing this in 2.0.8.5, I would have had to find two scientists to bulb Astro. Instead of the Artist I have stored I would have had a GS. Instead of the GE, I would hopefully have had another GS. I would have had no option to defend the shores except via Galleons, as carracks and caravels are no good. I would have been delayed in building any land units that could project power and I would have no choice except to fight OH on the seas to gain naval dominance and then focus on taking over some land (whomever had it) via naval warfare.

If I couldn't find those two scientists, then I would have never been able to do anything except force a land invasion of OH to stop him taking land that I feel I need to have to win this game. And I would be forced to mass caravels to try and hold specific choke points (the area between the island and SW) and also hold significant defensive units on the island and west coast.

I honestly feel that making the caravel into a 4 strength, 1 capacity mini-galleon and the privateer being put at Optics+Paper is enough. The other stuff isn't strictly necessary to solve this problem. What it does solve is the separate issue of just heading up the tech tree "For the next power unit to beat what the other guy has" with no strategy or tactical input necessary. I've said before that I think the Privateer may need a +50% attack against SoL to push players towards combined arms, but that is no different to the chariot/axe/spear triangle that exists. We can't realistically test that in this game any more, because the economies are so varied in output. One player will win just because they "have more" of everything.

[Krill]

Turn 162

No good news this turn. I'll start with OH:




Superorganism falls on T164.





I have to hold this island at the start of the war, and I already have the units ready to take it.





But it doesn't matter. I miscounted yesterday, and so did OT4E. Gav was able to attack the knights that OT4E had outside his capital, because he had engineering. I knew it, and OT4E could see the pike, so should have known. Gav destroyed everything. So Paris falls on T163 at the latest, or Gav could take it this turn. It doesn't matter.





It doesn't matter. superjm has nothing to stop the SoD just rolling up the entire continent. Gav just stops and heals, will take the remaining OT4E cities, and then continue to roll that Steamroller up and around the map until nothing is left.

My only option, method, to stop that happening, is to just build an SoD and send it to defend superjm. That leaves OH free to clear up Lewwyn, and I'm not playing kingmaker.

[Krill]

PEOPLE ARE POSTING! In other threads, but I can't have everything.

Started playing this turn just as I opened a beer (I drink so rarely now, and I never civ and drink anymore).

Updates to come when I'm sober, but: superjm has Taj and Nationalism, and I'm going to try for a limited war against OH and see what happens. NO change in my build up, but I forgot one major point: he will be able to bulb Chem, and this turn he just popped a second GS.

[Krill]

Day off tomorrow. Ill do all the turn updates then, but I might start running out of words halfway through.

superjm's GNP is awesome. Shame about his crappy MFG and power.

[Krill]

Backlog of previous turns.

Turn 163




The fall of Superoganism as foretold.

OH will go on to take out Donovan, but will not require significant units to do so.





OK, let's just spitball this: Either superjm built this, or rushed it with a GE. Either way, he now has the opportunity to try and push for Mil Trad and Gunpowder. He needs to defend at a choke point, and the rest is just naval warfare and Gav does not have the upper hand there. So superjm can hold Gav off, or Gav could decide to not even bother trying and just focus on economic recovery and roll superjm later (with additions to the SoD).

Best case scenario? superjm bought me more time. Worst case? Gav holds against superjm and goes to roll over superdeath after building a bit of a navy. I have no control over either scenario so don't worry about it.










Turn 164












I know the stats look good, but the GNP is dreadful and the costs are going through the roof as I build up the army. Vassalage might just take the edge off it, and Merc is worth maybe 60gpt, but I really need to finish courthouses in lots of cities and get down markets, grocers and libraries. I do need to build basic infrastructure and probably even Castles.

Part of the problem is that when I declare on OH, I'm trashing a ton of trade routes. I'm also losing OT4E's trade routes, and Lewwyns as well, so I am left with just Cairo, superdeath and superjm. Luckily I do have a few off shore cities that are reaching large sizes now, but...not quite large enough.


Turn 165







OH is starting to fill up his coastal cities. He knows an attack is incoming. He just doesn't know where.









Just keep in mind: OH has two GS stored. I have a GA, GM and GE. And both our GNPs suck. OH basically has Chem on bulb priority #1, and he is rushing to get there. Frigates are his savior on the water, but then he has to hold out on land. Can he do it? Probably, but not if I just keep on building up and never pull the trigger on an attack, and then move into with a massive SoD of over 100 units (that would take me until maybe T180 to realises FWIW, probably before). But it's too slow, and I'd struggle to also hold off on the coast. That's a Pyrrhic victory right there.

What I want is a limited war. Whether I can get one is another matter. This is a very similar position to PB37 between Couer+Bacchus v. myself, but I've swapped sides: I'm the one that is aiming for a limited war and I can't guarantee that.


Turn 166




I lost ivory with OT4E due to Gav taking the city. So I have a free gems tile, and I can't say no to the wines. I would rather have the ivory (market happy v. grocer health) but I don't think there are any remaining ivory now.






Cleanup crew are on duty. I still have more pop than Gav at the moment, but once these cities are regrown that will not be the case. Also, GG DZ.





Queen Bitch is empty, and there are no galleons around that can discover what I'm up to.





The northern carracks I've moved forward. They both have 2 knights on. I can try and take to take Pet Shop Boys, unload the 4 knights and take Clean Bandit on the first turn of a war. OH has also taken Jealous Sound, the Lewwyn city to the NW of these two cities. Those are the only 4 cities I am going to try and take in this war.

Will it work? I don't know. I am pretty sure I've fucked this up already, and I could have had knights in place to take Jealous sound on the first turn of the war. I've just not been thinking this through well enough. Could have done with a sounding board/partner whilst I've been distracted over the past week in RL.

What I am hoping to do is to hold these 4 cities to provide a route to take out Lewwyn. I think that I can offer a ceasefire end of next turn and then take Jealous sound on T168 and offer a peace treaty. I am optimistic that OH sees this from my perspective, that he has empathy. He understood the point of the previous war dec regarding HWD, and we got back to peace. What I'm less certain of, is if he sees value in peace. Because he might think I'm just taking too much land and eventually I will come for him, in which case, is now the best time to try and deal with me?

To answer that question depends on what information we both have. I look at Gav and think "I don't want to get into any big fights", and attacking into CKN and frigates is a big fight. OH does not have the map knowledge of what Gav just did to OT4E, but does have his graphs. He might think the same thing, he might not. He might think that Lewwyns lands are too important and he needs to scrap because he can't deal with superdeath. I don't know. He might think that a peace treaty gives him a window to go and batter down superdeath though. I don't know what superdeaths lands look like, I don't know the payoff, I don't know. I just don't know.




There are more knights covering the newly captured island than there are covering his core:




All the same, because most of my knights down there are only 3XP, I would lose most of them attack Free At Last. There is no point attacking unless I was attempting to take everything really. None of it is holdable without a good navy.













Just overtook OH in power. And I can get Banking eot167 and potentially trigger a GA T168. Busy few turns coming up.

[Krill]

Turn 167

OH god. I fucking hate war declarations.

First of all the diplo screen:













OH now has more cities than I do. Definitely sticking with the idea that Lewwyns land is mine or we fight to the death, but I might be able to get out of the war without that last part.





Not much in either of the front cities, just a few units, but definitely enough to hold against what either of us can see the other has on hand.





Very few real defenders in the cities behind the front line, but I can't get to them right now. I reckon OH is looking at Frigates ASAP to keep this strategy working, and I don't see it failing.

I don't move any more units though. It's war dec time, so I can retreat the units with full movement points.











I don't move any more units though. It's war dec time, so I can retreat the units with full movement points. But what a I'm seeing is that OH is not trying to hold the northern islands, and has retreated everything to hold the core of the DZ starting island and his core. That bodes well for me.





His scout from the southern peninsula safely moves to behind Free At Last. I have vision on Constant Sorry due to EP (I both love and hate that mechanic).





The chariot was not such a safe move. I can easily kill it, but it does threaten workers. More on this later.





Knights are always the answer to Xbows. Even off boats.





Win! Keeps the granary, more than enough. Size 3 but far from the core. I want a courthouse before a lighthouse.





Oh thank god there aren't move units in the city. That means I can drop two knights off on the Jealous Sound Island and maybe capture that next turn and offer a ceasefire.








Praise be to the RNG!





Definitely want to keep this. Size 4 it can work the food, 2 workshops and a windmill and Merc  engineer, and then once the Feitoria is down it's got a decent chunk of coast to work. Neither of these cities are great, but without them it's going to be nigh impossible to keep a route open to Lewwyn's capital. I just hope that the y pay back the cost in the relationship with OH, but hey, let's make the best of a bad situation.





This was empty.





Good enough. 2 food resources and a workshop. It just covers the western Moai city. This is the one city which I can't justify in the same manner as the other 3, but at the same time it causes a great destabilising effect on our border. I don't think this city has the same effect on OH's coastal defence. I reckon I made a mistake on not settling the 3 tile island off the coast of my Moai when I had the chance. If I had held that, I don't know if OH would have settled this island.








I reckon that we will take the city next turn, and be able to offer a ceasefire straight to OH, and then OB. Will he take it? I expect that OH feels he overreached to grab these cities, not against Lewwyn, because he easily took them, but he does understand that he never gave me an out. So I suspect he may take the ceasefire given that he feels getting to Chemistry puts him in a position to then have a go at me (especially if he just runs all the way to cannon). He gives me the opportunity to overstrength to take out Lewwyn whilst he builds up, and then comes at me with cannons covering his units, and drydock powered frigates.

I reckon that's a plan that could work. I'd have to be very careful about how I approached attacking Lewwyn. I likely have to use only what I have on hand plus a few cities outputs, and otherwise throw everything back into basic infrastructure and tech to be able to counter it effectively.





I'm not always a dick. The chariot can't move anywhere, but it's not dead.





Nothing in this ocean. It seems like OH has retreated his galleons as well to see what I did first and play defensively. What he may have, is have the galleon stack that was in REM fully loaded and ready to retake this island. I reckon the knights would kill 2 CKN, but against swords I think I'd be lucky to kill 2. Nothing I can do there except counter by starting to move the privateers up and start to prepare for the fight in the ocean, and try to trap whatever units I could on the island whilst I then prepared to attack elsewhere.





The way I'd play this defensively is to keep a stack of privateers or frigates on the tile 44 of Run On. With circumnavigation it can cover everything, and with a fort 1 of The XX it can also pass straight through to attack superdeath. And there is no way to fork OH without giving OH an opportunity to attack the stack of transport units. To play it offensively, he needs the 3 cities I just took and to hold the stack between those 2 islands, to threaten a run to the pass at Stormy Weather.





I've gotten some military units one turn from completion, not a lot, but enough to fill a few boats to go and hit Lewwyn with. Depending on how next turn plays out, I will figure out how I'm going to spend the GA, and what military units I need to take him out of the game. My reckoning is trebs and maces. I already have more than a few knights. I might even need to reconsider the use of Vassalage during the GA...





Most of the new cities need court houses. I need to get that City Maintenance bit down significantly. But I'm also going to struggle with beaker multipliers. If OH heads straight to Steel, then I have to do the same. I'm down two bulbs and Astro; call it 8K beakers. We'll see what happens. Steel is almost 8K beakers itself. OH might just think it's not worth it and go murder superdeath.

[Dreylin]

Progress looks good this turn. OH seems to have left you the opportunity for limited gains + peace, but I guess we'll see how it plays out. Good to see that Soldiers number finally tick up to #2!