[SPOILERS!] Pericles of Babylon. Kyan, Twinkletoes, Whosit.

[Whosit]

Had a look. Micro'd Leviticus a bit: Worked Oasis rather than unimproved floodplains for 1 extra commerce.

Added a few signs, including my recommendations for Exodus. Hammer town.

Next city, looks like you decided on the hill, though I added another sign in case you have a change of heart.

If we have to chop out the Great Library, then Numbers is the only place to do it with 6 forests around it. We'll want to build/whip a Forge there first, I think, to further multiply the hammers. Maybe.

Let's see, we have math, so each forest is 30 hammers. We have marble, so each of those is doubled (60 hammers). We need 350. We'd have just enough with the 6 forests alone, though if we can manage to get a Forge before all the chops are done, we might as well. Oh, we need a Library, as well, of course.

Ideally, I'd finish Granary (or whip it). Work on Forge, whip for max overflow into a Library (roughly 25 hammers base, times 125% for 55). Or just whip Granary into Library. We don't even have the techs yet. What's the time-frame here?

[Kyan]

Had a look. Micro'd Leviticus a bit: Worked Oasis rather than unimproved floodplains for 1 extra commerce.

Added a few signs, including my recommendations for Exodus. Hammer town.

Next city, looks like you decided on the hill, though I added another sign in case you have a change of heart.

If we have to chop out the Great Library, then Numbers is the only place to do it with 6 forests around it. We'll want to build/whip a Forge there first, I think, to further multiply the hammers. Maybe.

Let's see, we have math, so each forest is 30 hammers. We have marble, so each of those is doubled (60 hammers). We need 350. We'd have just enough with the 6 forests alone, though if we can manage to get a Forge before all the chops are done, we might as well. Oh, we need a Library, as well, of course.

Ideally, I'd finish Granary (or whip it). Work on Forge, whip for max overflow into a Library (roughly 25 hammers base, times 125% for 55). Or just whip Granary into Library. We don't even have the techs yet. What's the time-frame here?

Thanks pal. Exodus i agree with. And if we do whip it, it has cottages to grow back with.

The new city site, 1S makes our corn un-usable. Granted it's currently dry but it's only 1 tile from a river and won't be long til we boost it up. Also would lose out on a grassland hill. Further, lose any defensive help.

Rome is to our south and they are not in PAT. (unless they do a big u turn).

Great Library:
We need to be able to build it in 1 turn. We have marble.
I make that either 6 chops OR 4 chops with a forge in place. I don't have an exact timeframe but we're looking at sooner rather than later.

[Kyan]

Ok, timeframes!

It really depends on Aesthetics; if I were you, I'd come up with:
A T95 plan, where you start GLib T94. We'll push commerce to get it out T94; it'll be close, but we can do it. If I have to work an extra scientist or two to do it, I will. (2t build should be plausible here)
A T99 plan, where you start GLib T99, and get all of the hammers into it that turn. I wouldn't be surprised if this moves forward or back a turn. (I wouldn't want to take any chances if this happens).

Understood on the missionaries; that's why we approached you two, as being our closest neighbors, and easiest to send them to & justify.

We'll know if it's the former (Aesthetics gets dealt around) or the latter (Mali researches Aesthetics)

It's much more likely to be T99. Whosit, would you be interested in working out a full micro plan for our workers up til that point?

If not, i'll work one out. I trust you more than me with micro

It's gonna require 6 chops all completing on T99. We will have 7 workers at least by this point, can probly force one out of Exodus which is actually probably the best move.

====

Joshua is founded but requires work. We have Calendar now. Joshua needs linking by road, corn improved, floodplains cottaged and dye chopped and plantationed as soon as possible. It's probly gonna be delayed by GLib- but will be our key focus afterwards.

Krill got CoL in his jewish holy city.

[Kyan]

[COLOR="SlateGray"]Please don't pass on any of the following info; it's for your civ only. I guess don't read further if that's an issue, but one hopes it's not



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Okay,

So in case you hadn't heard or figured already, my team will not be joining PAT. Actually had a rare total agreement situation there between team members. The rationale is too cumbersome to really discuss in email; suffice it to say, we thought over the issue most thoroughly.

Being on different sides isn't going to change my team's feelings or relations to you in any way, I want to affirm that right now. We are still happy to trade with you, and will do so regardless of what others think.

I have conveyed my feelings regarding your civ to my allies, and I am assured that you guys (and Maya) will not number amoung the targets. I understand that you are very likely unable to arrange a similar agreement protecting my civ from your end, and that's fine. You already stuck your neck out far enough trying to bring my civ into the PAT, and my civ is one of the most obvious targets for England and Egypt now.

Our civs have both made pledges to each other of military protection if attacked by enemies, and to the best of my knowledge we still have an NAP active, which we signed very early on in the game. I would like to formalize our two civ's "special relationship" with written agreements, if you are amenable. Specifically, I would like to clarify our NAP as being continuous with at least a 10 turn cancellation notice (would prefer longer, like 20, but negotiable). The NAP would come with clauses for no gifting of troops to hostile 3rd parties for attacks on either of us, and no passage for enemy forces seeking to attack either of us. Also, no hostile scouting (sending revealing intel screencaps to enemies for their tactical maneuvering).

I would certainly be interested in additional clauses for mutual defense, either through gifting of defensive units to the besieged party, or outright declaring on the aggressor(s). Another option is that we are both obligated to inform the other if an attack is planned on us (we would need to decide how to work around in within the confines of confidentiality with 3rd parties in this case). However, I understand if you are unable to agree to such a proposal, if it would cause untenable conflict with your allies. Still, at the very least we can ensure that any civilization that wants to attack one of us really has to work for it


If you agree to at least the above "modified NAP" arrangement, then I have some more ideas to bounce off you, specifically regarding the "Palpatine Proposal" I brought up in our group chat. I can see both of us coming out from this current division in very powerful positions- I hope you feel the same way...


Let me know what you think!



For the Spectre Council,


Bobchillingworth[/COLOR]

No great surprise. I'll agree to the terms generally i think BUT i will likely need to stipulate some terms about attacking 3rd parties. i.e. We can't have Krill going down as he's our gold supplier.

[Kyan]

[COLOR="Magenta"]DJ Civ,

The duration i'm not too fussy with. I'm more concerned about potentially tying us up in case one of us needs to defend an ally.

eg. If you attacked Mali, i would be honour bound to the NAP and watch my good friend burn.

How about:

A 10turn NAP which auto-renews every 5 turns. If you trigger the cooldown on the NAP, you can then declare war on T+5.

1) If one of the two parties declares war on a 3rd party civ in neutral territory (that under nobodys cultural control), they trigger the cooldown on the NAP allowing both parties to declare war on T+5.

2) If one of the two parties declares war on a 3rd party civ in anyone's territory except their own, they instantly cancel the NAP.
i)If the NAP is cancelled such a way, the aggressor (the civ that initially declared war) may not enter land culturally controlled by the othe civ until T+5.

3) No right of passage is to be given to other 3rd party civ's looking to use your land to attack the other civilization.

4) Whilst open borders and peace is maintained, no sharing of information in regards to the land belonging to the other civ's.

5) Gifting of units to be directly used to attack the other civ would constitute breaking rule 2. We all have reputations to protect so let's just play fair here as it's hard to prove.

How does that sound? It's fairly (very?) long winded but the situation is also. We would like to remain friends but flexibility may well be needed also. I've tried to remove any ways in which this system could be manipulated but if there are any glaring loopholes, please point them out.

thanks

Kyan[/COLOR]

India want a NAP which is fine by me but we need to keep it super flexible in case our allies need us. Hence this.

[Whosit]

The new city site, 1S makes our corn un-usable. Granted it's currently dry but it's only 1 tile from a river and won't be long til we boost it up. Also would lose out on a grassland hill. Further, lose any defensive help.

I believe that my suggestion was 1E of the hill, not 1S. Like I said, I think that settling adjacent to a river is always the better option unless you need the hill for defense.

I'll check up on the game tonight and come up with some Worker MM. Can't even remember the current turn number. Meh. But, yeah, I'll try to give you a detailed Worker task list that you can hopefully follow.

This much I know: We'll probably want to pre-chop all the forests, then figure out how to do some worker-ballet to get a worker on each forest at the same time to chop them.

A worker pair can pre-chop each forest in a turn. It would take 12 turns for one pair to do this to 6 forests (assuming no roads). So we may want 2 pair, and then a third pair waiting for the final turn. I will build a plan for the earliest time frame, because we can always wait, I suppose, though it could waste Worker turns.

I'd like to have one Worker on Exodus-duty until all of my suggestions are complete. From this point onward, we should do our best not to leave a city alone until all workable tiles are improved.

Do we have Machinery yet, and if not, any idea when? I seem to recall that putting Windmills up somewhere might be a good idea.

Squeezing another Worker or two out of Leviticus might also be a good idea. We'll want a Forge there soon to get the most out of our "whip economy."

[Whosit]

I just noticed something, Kyan. You were talking about trading Aesthetics around. Where is Literature coming from?

Here's my rough plan. The F#s are referring to signs I put up around Numbers.

Worker Plan

Turn 88
Gladstone: Mine Gold (2)
Brown: Mine Iron (3)
Disraeli: ---
Thatcher: ---
Cameron: ---
Livingston: Build Cottage (5)

Turn 89
Gladstone: Mine Gold (1)
Brown: Mine Iron (2)
Disraeli: Move 1N, 1NE (silver)
Thatcher: Move 1N, 1NE (silver)
Cameron: Build Farm (5)
Livingston: Build Cottage (4)

Turn 90
Gladstone: Road Gold (2)
Brown: Mine Iron (1)
Disraeli: Move 1NW (road 1)
Thatcher: Move 1NW (road 1)
New Worker: Completes, Move to Road 1
Cameron: Build Farm (4)
Livingston: Build Cottage (3)

Turn 91
Gladstone: Road Gold (1)
Brown: Move to forest 1N Numbers (F1)
Disraeli: Build Road (1)
Thatcher: Build Road (1)
New Worker: Move 2NE (F8 )
Cameron: Build Farm (3)
Livingston: Build Cottage (2)

Turn 92
Gladstone: Move to F3
Brown: Chop F1 (3)
Disraeli: Move to F7
Thatcher: Move to F7
New Worker: Chop F8 (3)
Cameron: Build Farm (2)
Livingston: Build Cottage (1)

Turn 93 (F1: Pre-chopped; F7: Pre-chopped; F8: Pre-chopped)
Gladstone: Chop F3 (3)
Brown: Chop F1 (2)--Cancel
Disraeli: Chop F7 + Cancel
Thatcher: Chop F7 + Cancel
New Worker: Chop F8 (2)--Cancel
Cameron: Build Farm (1)
Livingston: Move 1N, Build Cottage (4)

Turn 94 (F1: Pre-chopped; F3: Pre-chopped; F7: Pre-chopped, Road; F8: Pre-chopped)
Gladstone: Chop F3(2)--Cancel
Brown: Build Road (2)
Disraeli: Build Road (1)
Thatcher: Build Road (1)
New Worker: Build Road (2)
Cameron:
Livingston: Build Cottage (3)

Turn 95 (F1: Pre-chopped, Road; F3: Pre-chopped; F7: Pre-chopped, Road; F8: Pre-chopped, Road)
Gladstone: Build Road (2)
Brown: Build Road (1)
Disraeli: Move to F6
Thatcher: Move to F6
New Worker: Build Road (1)
Cameron:
Livingston: Build Cottage (2)

Turn 96 (F1: Pre-chopped, Road; F3: Pre-chopped, Road; F6: Pre-chopped; F7: Pre-chopped, Road; F8: Pre-chopped, Road)
Gladstone: Build Road (1)
Brown: Move to F2
Disraeli: Chop F6 + Cancel
Thatcher: Chop F6 + Cancel
New Worker: (Wait for F3 road), move to F2
Cameron:
Livingston: Build Cottage (1)

Turn 97 (F1: Pre-chopped, Road; F2: Pre-chopped, F3: Pre-chopped, Road; F6: Pre-chopped, Road; F7: Pre-chopped, Road; F8: Pre-chopped, Road)
Gladstone (F3): Move to F2
Brown (F2): Chop F2--Cancel
Disraeli (F6): Build Road (1)
Thatcher (F6): Build Road (1)
New Worker (F2): Chop F2--Cancel
Cameron:
Livingston: Move 1NW, 2N

Turn 98 (F1: Pre-chopped, Road; F2: Pre-chopped Road, F3: Pre-chopped, Road; F6: Pre-chopped, Road; F7: Pre-chopped, Road; F8: Chopped, Road)
Gladstone (F2): Build Road (1)
Brown (F2): Build Road (1)
Disraeli (F6): Move to F7, wait.
Thatcher (F6): Wait
New Worker (F2): Move to F3, wait.
Cameron:
Livingston: Move 1N (F8 )

Turn 99: Literature available?
Gladstone (F2): Move to F1, Chop
Brown (F2): Chop F2
Disraeli (F7): Chop F7
Thatcher (F6): Chop F6
New Worker (F3): Chop F3
Cameron:
Livingston (F8 ): Chop F 8

It's a bit rough and not completely efficient (since most of the workers have to Wait at the end), but I'm not sure if I can do much better. I can fill in orders for Cameron later, but I'd probably suggest moving 1SW of the Corn and mine that forested plains hill.

Do you want me to make a plan for an earlier Great Library? It's probably doable, but I'd have to think about it a bit more. If you want it earlier, all 3 workers by Joshua should probably head north.

Oh, and all the gibberish after the turn number are the things that should be done AFTER the workers have made their move that turn, not at the start.

[Kyan]

Hey mate, that looks brilliant. I'll have more full answers for you shortly.

Could you possibly play the turn for me tonite? If not, i'll be able to do it in around 8hrs or so. Thanks

[Kyan]

and no, T99 is the earliest we could possibly get it.

Research will need to go 0% temporarily btw.

[Twinkletoes89]

If noone else can do the turn - I am still around to cover it! Just let me know if you need me, Whosit!