Ranamar and Lewwyn, ministers for Bismarck of Mali

[SevenSpirits]

Chat with Yuris.

8:15 AM me: hey
Yuri: hey hey
me: let me tell you about the AP thing
we'd been talking with GES about having him build AP for a while
8:16 AM hence adopting confucianism, for example
8:17 AM when you told us you were thinking about AP, we could honestly say that we (mali) were not considering building it, but we couldn't tell you that egypt might build it due to our agreement with them
Yuri: well, I would've expected you to at least say "don't build it", without specifying a reason
8:18 AM that was the purpose of the info exchange deal - not waste hammers on wonders other want
8:19 AM me: I interpreted it a bit differently - I've tried as hard as possible not to give away information from diplo with another team
8:20 AM I've tried not to hint to anyone that we've even talked about wonders, nor that I talked about the AP with GES
Yuri: well, I see your point. but to say that I was annoyed when I heard it would be putting it mildly
8:21 AM me: I understand
8:22 AM I won't claim it wasn't mean to you. But it wasn't mean for the sake of being mean, it's just that I had already spoken more about it with GES
we had a closer relationship with that team at the time because they loaned us marble
8:24 AM whereas, our relationship with you was that lewwyn settled a city at you when ranamar and I were gone for two days, and then we came to an agreement but it really didn't favor us at all
I know that's not your fault
8:25 AM Yuri: yeah. well, what's done is done. but I'm not inclined to sign a new NAP. the way I see it, signing it would be just delaying inevitable. so if you want to attack, bring it on
8:26 AM I won't deny losing cities on the 1st turn would be a blow, but I think I'll have to live with it
me: if you like, I guess we can live with it too
I do ask you to reconsider:
8:27 AM we'll be going to war vs commodore and GES simultaneously in a bit it seems
I expect all of us to take severe losses
this map is such that it's really hard to defend, and my expectation is that a lot of coastal cities on all sides will be razed
8:28 AM so I think it's probably good for you to stay out of this conflict, and you may even come out ahead at the end of it
8:31 AM Yuri: well, is the NAP still on the table? I didn't offer wheat this turn, and I won't agree to another turn of not reinforcing coastal cities. I suspect you want to attack this turn, if at all
8:32 AM as you can see, I have a lot of gold, will get Assembly Line this turn, and have been getting ready to upgrade the defences as soon as I get it
8:33 AM and I'm still not sure I want to stay out of the war, should it happen
me: hm
8:34 AM Yuri: what I can offer is that you demand wheat from us, and we take 10t of forced peace, then discuss what happens next
8:35 AM me: I wouldn't take a 10t NAP. obviously, facing three opponents at once is the worst case for us
8:36 AM Yuri: I understand
me: I need to think about it a bit. I'm sort of put off by first your delay until your next turn and then the further stall (even if it has good reason)
8:37 AM Yuri: ok, sure, tell me what you decide
I do hope you prefer not to attack us, but ready to accept if you decide to do it
me: right, makes sense
8:38 AM what are your current thoughts on 20t NAP with wheat gift?
8:39 AM Yuri: well, the point is, I'd prefer a shorter NAP. while for you 20t is probably the minimum you would agree to. I don't see how we can bridge the gap here
8:40 AM me: ok. I think we'll probably just attack you, then
Yuri: ok, see you on the battlefield then
me: sorry :/
Yuri: that's fine

I explained it to him. Basically I said "We didn't violate the agreement even in spirit, but sorry, we were mean."

He said he did not offer the wheat this turn. And the most he was willing to offer was 10t of peace, which is not good for us. (Then we'd have to fight three at once.) I have not committed us to anything but it sure looks like we'll be attacking yuris. We'll see what the situation is when we get the save from Commodore. If he stuck to his word, we should be able to raze 2 large cities this turn, which is a lot of money.

[Ranamar]

Seems reasonable... Also, honestly, based on what I saw before, Yuris is completely hosed. Like, even if he reinforced them, all he'd be able to do is put enough units that we can't take it in one turn. Janissaries aren't going to hold up against Marines at all.

[SevenSpirits]

Indeed. But oh - he did say he's getting assembly line next turn (this turn?) and will have massive piles of cash to upgrade to infantry. So he will be able to put up some resistance, just not this turn. (Confirmation via actual save pending.)

Also had a chat with luddite for fun:

9:57 AM me: hey
charliepye: hey
me: so I guess now you've told people when our NAP ends?
9:58 AM charliepye: ummmm i might have, yeah
9:59 AM me: I might have to start a UN thread so we can have no relations with everyone at once
charliepye: haha
well you guys are looking pretty scary right now
10:00 AM me: you mean in MFG?
charliepye: in everything
i noticed you just got flight
and beat me to the pentagon
me: you know our tech rate is less than yours, right?
were you building it??
charliepye: yeah, i'd just started
me: oh
charliepye: but i'm sure you're ahead of me in tech
me: we are for the moment, due to all the bulbing and golden ages
10:01 AM charliepye: well you got plastics + flight in the time it took me just to get plastics
me: counting from when?
charliepye: well, more or less
me: we had combustion nearly finished for a long time, and good overflow
10:02 AM charliepye: and you also sidetracked for radio
me: yeah
you sidetracked for democracy
and fascism
charliepye: haha
10:03 AM still, i'm pretty sure you're ahead of me in research speed
me: I really doubt it
10:04 AM keep in mind we've got 150% culture everywhere from eiffel tower + free speech and another 50% in the capital from broadway
10:05 AM charliepye: still, you managed to go from corporation, up through flight, really fast
me: yup
and corp kinda hurt, too
charliepye: my streak of one turn techs finally ended
10:06 AM me: I noticed
of course one factor in our tech advantage is that instead of wasting beakers on theology we just build shwedagon paya
10:07 AM charliepye: haha
i built that thing in PB4
10:08 AM i was hoping to combine it with the pyramids, and the ziggurat, and go as far as possible without researching anything
me: lol
so, do you want a NAP extension?
charliepye: no... not right now
10:09 AM me: aw
charliepye: if i do you'll just blow past me in tech
me: don't be silly, you can't blow past someone you're ahead of already
charliepye: haha
fair enough
10:10 AM me: I did notice you've built some units finally
that's pretty cool
10:11 AM charliepye: yeah units are cool
6 minutes
10:17 AM charliepye: i noticed your power graph has increased a lot lately, too
me: that's true
10:18 AM probably just because coliseums give power or something
charliepye: haha
wait, do coloseums actually give power?
me: no
in fact, we're pretty much out of buildings to build
10:19 AM charliepye: yeah, i figured
me: so I guess, for lack of a better option
(since we haven't researched music and can't build culture )
might as well build some units for purely defensive purposes
charliepye: haha i see

[Ranamar]

Indeed. But oh - he did say he's getting assembly line next turn (this turn?) and will have massive piles of cash to upgrade to infantry. So he will be able to put up some resistance, just not this turn. (Confirmation via actual save pending.)

Also had a chat with luddite for fun:

not quoted due to quote removing :neenernee

Upgrading to infantry would definitely give him enough forces to put up a decent fight. Multiplier-for-multiplier, Marines beat out Infantry, but he's guaranteed to have extra multipliers. (Also, Infantry attacking Marines is better for him than Marines attacking Infantry is for us on flat ground due to the way conditional bonuses work.)

As for Luddite... that's some rather amusing banter.

[SevenSpirits]

Played t144. First I revealed the map with airships and declared war on yuris.

We had two galleons in position with three marines each - one on each front. Let's start in the west:



Unfortunately he had an ironclad nearby. After we attacked Echo of Moscow, he'd be able to kill our galleon (with at least one marine still inside). Fortunately however, he had a trireme there too.

I attacked it!

I then razed the city. 99% vs the cavalry, LOL% vs the axe with our 5xp marine. Neither of our units were hurt.




I then promoted our newly-6xp galleon to flanking/navigation. It gained an extra movement and ran away from the ironclad.

The second target was Retro FM. Our galleon had a choice of quite a few cities to attack actually, so why this one? Well, because it had 5 galleons just sort of hanging out inside it. That's rather nice to not have to worry about anymore.

Retro FM was defended by one axe:



Again no wounds on the marine, but it should be easy to pick him off, sadly.

This galleon killed a trireme on the way too, allowing it to get nav 1 as well, and move up to Love Radio and kill 2 of the 3 defenders there:



One of these marines took a hit but he still has 97% odds on the remaining janissary defender. Love these guys.

After all that, I noticed we were just 4xp from another great general. Hmmmm... So there's this random guy in a fort here...



24 vs 18 strength, that's just barely enough to get 3xp! I promote him up the drill line which improves his odds without changing the strength ratio:



And attack. Victory! Now just need 1 more xp...



Well there weren't any more of Yuris' units we could hit, but Commodore had this Caravel near our Privateer. It's only a 1xp battle but that's all we needed.

So that's the war part. I've loaded up more marines into boats for next turn. I also started a fort on the isthmus near Falls of Rauros which will allow our injured galleon to reach Maximum next turn if we so desire. That galleon can also head the other way though - his northern cities are all just defended by one axe each. I think we can get a lot done in the next few turns.

Here's the "peace" part:

Started Rock'n'Roll in Barad-dur. (I decided against the factory. BD is pretty unhealthy and already has great multipliers anyway.) Started Biology, due next turn. I put science at just over breakeven to obscure our commerce per turn (people can't see how much gold we're losing per turn). I gold-rushed everything that was rushable and queued up more military builds and airports.

Emancipation anger was up one this turn, and we got a point of war weariness unhappy, too. Then there's the 3 health we lost from Yuris' resources. Here's what our cities look like. Rock'n'Roll will help, and if it gets too bad we can dial up the culture slider.



Demographics:



Our MFG is nuts from the Dam.

Oh, after spending our EP this turn one can see that contrary to his claim, Yuris is researching Artillery. PLEASE CONTINUE TO RESEARCH THIS OH GOD YES. Marines in boats vs artillery:

[SevenSpirits]

Oh, VERY IMPORTANT:

I left the privateer in range of Luddite's oil. We should pillage it next turn, before he can defend it. Unless he has built a backup WB already this will cost him two turns of producing oil units.

Less important: I'm thinking about saving the great general to make a commando Tank. This might let us raze a valuable inland city by surprise. That will require Military Strategy, if we want to do that.

[Ranamar]

Commando tank would be hilarious as well as practical. The Great General promotion also opens up a lot of handy promotions. (I'm imagining, eventually, a monster tank which rolls in from over the border and attacks three times to take a city. That would require a ton of exp, though, and definitely more than we could get out of even Lorien producing the tank that gets the general.)

I was going to comment that ironclads have 3 speed and therefore it can catch the galleon... but then I remembered that all our units have a circumnav bonus.

[NobleHelium]

You can always just move into a neutral ocean tile to be ironclad-immune.

[SevenSpirits]

Sure. The problem was just having the spare movement point.

For commando we'd need 26xp, i.e. a tank produced anywhere (7xp) plus the general. I don't think it'll ever get to 37xp so there's no point in using a Lorien (11xp) tank.

[NobleHelium]

Using the GG like that is actually better than settling it, because then you'd unlock West Point and can build it in Lorien for +4 experience. Unless you can get to 26 XP otherwise of course.