RBP6 Lurker Thread

[xenin]

Also agree that when it's a debate about whether or not things should be posted that non-intervention has to get the benefit of the doubt.

[spacetyrantxenu]

I don't see any reference to the cash rushing benefits of the Kremlin in Team 1's assessment. I don't remember seeing plans to cash rush from Team 3 once the Kremlin is online. Would that be because they have only one civ setup to build cash (WK's Rome) and therefore have their gold tied up in research for Dave and Shoot? I don't think anyone is in the right civics to rush, or is that unlocked by a tech they haven't researched yet?

I don't doubt that later on when they're in US they'll want to rush buy, I guess it will depend on what their research needs continue to be. If they stay in catch up mode behind Team 1 in beaker count, they may not be able to afford giving up science to buy units even if the conversion rate is favorable, lest they fall further behind. My guess is that they'll use the Kremlin to improve whipping for now and will get good value out of cash rushing further down the line.

[AutomatedTeller]

I'm not quite sure why they say the era of whipping is over. Both Team #1 and Team #3 are still planting cities and one assumes they'll be taking cities from team #2/#4.

There will still be whipping done.

[Krill]

I'm kind of starting to agree. I could word it like this, about as neutrally as possible. Sullla won't think twice about me detailing a game mechanic. Any opinions?

*borderline lie, since I didn't actually find it in the code, but he doesn't have to know that.

I don't think you should post this, for the following reasons:

1. Sullla has already stated that he has dismissed a T2 culture victory out of hand: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=332
   
   
   "Team 2: This team has baffled me from the very start of the game. Their tech choices have never made any sense. They built all these wonders to very little purpose. What in the world are they doing?! The only thing I can imagine is that they're going for Culture, which is so ridiculous that I've dismissed it out of hand for most of the game. Nevertheless, they did prioritize Liberalism, and several of them are in Free Speech civic, so who knows. They researched one tech in the last 20 turns (Feudalism). Are they really running the culture slider? That feels totally suicidal to me - I see no possible way to reach a victory before someone comes and kills them.
   
   I guess I'll keep an eye on the Victory screen and see what's going on with their culture, but I really don't think it's a possibility. Last I checked, their #2 and #3 cities were at like 1000 culture. Unless there's 25 Great Artists hiding out there - which we haven't seen in the Event logger - this is the longest of long shots."
   
   
2. A lurker screwed up and posted a meta-spoiler in the private forum
   
   
3. Then did Sullla revisit and test out the chances of culture victory working
   
   
4. Sullla misunderstood a game mechanic

The main reason Sullla has investigated the culture victory was because of the lurker post IMO. The only reason he has posted about a misunderstanding of the game mechanics, is because of a spoiled post: you wouldn't intervene with that post without the outside cause. Therefore, I think that any correction we make is just furthering our interference in the game, instead of correcting a misunderstanding of the game.

[VoiceOfUnreason]

I didn't find what would limit a culture victory to not occur in the first few turns of a game, though, but I know I've seen similar behavior with conquest and space tests.

I think it's buried in the chain of Python code....

CvGame.cpp

Code:

void CvGame::testVictory()
{
    ...

    long lResult = 1;
    gDLL->getPythonIFace()->
    callFunction(PYGameModule, "isVictoryTest", NULL, &lResult);
    if (lResult == 0)
    {
        return;
    }

CvDefines.h

Code:

#define PYGameModule                                  "CvGameInterface"

CvGameInterface.py

Code:

import CvGameUtils
import CvGameInterfaceFile
import CvEventInterface
from CvPythonExtensions import *

# globals
gc = CyGlobalContext()
normalGameUtils = CvGameInterfaceFile.GameUtils
        
def isVictoryTest():
    #CvUtil.pyPrint( "CvGameInterface.isVictoryTest" )
    return gameUtils().isVictoryTest()

CvGameInterfaceFile.py

Code:

import CvGameUtils
from CvPythonExtensions import *

GameUtils = CvGameUtils.CvGameUtils()

CvGameUtils

Code:

class CvGameUtils:
    def isVictoryTest(self):
        if ( gc.getGame().getElapsedGameTurns() > 10 ):
            return True
        else:
            return False

Odd that it's hard coded in. (The Holy City test is hardwired a similar way, on a 5 turn counter).

In thinking about it, probably the right way to course correct Team 1 would be to ask how it's possible to get a OCC Cultural victory, if all three cities need to come from the same Civilization.

But I don't think anybody discovering that question here has any business posting it there.


My own feelings are that (a) this is something that Sulla (at the very least) ought to be aware of anyway, and (b) the fact that the game disguises the cultural intentions is something that would delight Team #1 if they were taking advantage of it (and they've already been spooked on that point anyway).

Furthermore, if Speaker as an MP veteran isn't aware of the possibility himself, that suggests to me that this gambit is a novelty; and we ought to go out of our way to let that stand on its own.

Nobody should object to being beaten by clever play.

ps. Gah - how many times do I have to check that this doesn't go to the wrong thread? Answer: at least once more, Miss Swann, as always.

[Kyan]

I don't think you should post this, for the following reasons:

1. Sullla has already stated that he has dismissed a T2 culture victory out of hand: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=332
   
   
   "Team 2: This team has baffled me from the very start of the game. Their tech choices have never made any sense. They built all these wonders to very little purpose. What in the world are they doing?! The only thing I can imagine is that they're going for Culture, which is so ridiculous that I've dismissed it out of hand for most of the game. Nevertheless, they did prioritize Liberalism, and several of them are in Free Speech civic, so who knows. They researched one tech in the last 20 turns (Feudalism). Are they really running the culture slider? That feels totally suicidal to me - I see no possible way to reach a victory before someone comes and kills them.
   
   I guess I'll keep an eye on the Victory screen and see what's going on with their culture, but I really don't think it's a possibility. Last I checked, their #2 and #3 cities were at like 1000 culture. Unless there's 25 Great Artists hiding out there - which we haven't seen in the Event logger - this is the longest of long shots."
   
   
2. A lurker screwed up and posted a meta-spoiler in the private forum
   
   
3. Then did Sullla revisit and test out the chances of culture victory working
   
   
4. Sullla misunderstood a game mechanic

The main reason Sullla has investigated the culture victory was because of the lurker post IMO. The only reason he has posted about a misunderstanding of the game mechanics, is because of a spoiled post: you wouldn't intervene with that post without the outside cause. Therefore, I think that any correction we make is just furthering our interference in the game, instead of correcting a misunderstanding of the game.

I 100% agree with this. If Sullla had not been alerted to the possibility by a lurker in the first place, this would be different. Unfortunately, I still have little confidence that an inappropriate comment won't be made. I hope i'm proven wrong.

[Tyrmith]

Pardon for beating a dead horse, but the simple fact is also that Team 2 has earned the right to get a chance to win. They are betting the house on this, and telling Spulla they made a bad assumption isn't the right thing for team 2 either as it means that lurkers are causing them to lose instead of one of the other teams.

[luddite]

I don't think you should post this, for the following reasons:

1. Sullla has already stated that he has dismissed a T2 culture victory out of hand: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=332
   
   
   "Team 2: This team has baffled me from the very start of the game. Their tech choices have never made any sense. They built all these wonders to very little purpose. What in the world are they doing?! The only thing I can imagine is that they're going for Culture, which is so ridiculous that I've dismissed it out of hand for most of the game. Nevertheless, they did prioritize Liberalism, and several of them are in Free Speech civic, so who knows. They researched one tech in the last 20 turns (Feudalism). Are they really running the culture slider? That feels totally suicidal to me - I see no possible way to reach a victory before someone comes and kills them.
   
   I guess I'll keep an eye on the Victory screen and see what's going on with their culture, but I really don't think it's a possibility. Last I checked, their #2 and #3 cities were at like 1000 culture. Unless there's 25 Great Artists hiding out there - which we haven't seen in the Event logger - this is the longest of long shots."
   
   
2. A lurker screwed up and posted a meta-spoiler in the private forum
   
   
3. Then did Sullla revisit and test out the chances of culture victory working
   
   
4. Sullla misunderstood a game mechanic

The main reason Sullla has investigated the culture victory was because of the lurker post IMO. The only reason he has posted about a misunderstanding of the game mechanics, is because of a spoiled post: you wouldn't intervene with that post without the outside cause. Therefore, I think that any correction we make is just furthering our interference in the game, instead of correcting a misunderstanding of the game.

Hmm I guess it depends on how your interpret that post. I interpreted it as him saying "we thought about culture, but they can't possibly win it, because they'll need two more cities from the same civ to go legendary," which would be a game mechanics issue. But I can see how you could also interpret it as him simply not considering the possibility of us having legendary cities from another civ that wouldn't show up in the F8 screen, which is just an error. No way to know, now.

Well of course I'll be happy to see my team win. But I'll admit that I'm also really curious about whether team 3 would have been able to catch up in tech, or just slug it out with their higher population plus the Kremlin.

[T-hawk]

I think it's buried in the chain of Python code....

Ah, that sneaky stepchild of Civ 4 technology. I was only looking in the C++ DLL.

Ok, I'm convinced not to say anything to Sullla's team.

[ssmagus]

I'm confused about all this code talk now, But I know it is my fault.

You can all blame me easy-peasy. I won't complain.