RB PBEM #1 - Gandhi [spoilers]

[Ruff_Hi]

• Cities
  • FF*: Machine Gun -> Machine Gun [1]
    
  • LQ*: Artillery -> Artillery [1]
    
  • DV*: Artillery -> Infantry [2]
    
  • BH*: Machine Gun -> Machine Gun [1]
    
  • BS*: Mausoleum -> Infantry [5]
    
  • AC*: Infantry [1]
    
  • TN*: Airship [1]
    
  • KS*: Forge [1]
    
  • SL: Mt Rushmore [5]
    
  • MD*: Forge [1]
    
  • EC*: Forge [1]
    
  • NB*: Forge [3]
    
• Tech: Electricity [41], +355g at 0% science, 427g in the bank
  
• Opponent Tech
  • sooooo - Flight [7], 276g, +17g @ 50% tech
    
  • mostly harmless - Artillery [3], 476g, down from 599g last turn (negative)
    

My culture experiment at SL was a bit of a failure. I was trying to reclaim the first ring of peaks so that Sooooo wouldn't have visibility into SL. In other news ...

• I revolted back to Nationhood and drafted 3 infantry
  
• I asked for my oil back, and Flight, and Dreylin's spare coal (more hammers)
  
• I declared on mh, killed his lone scout and then proposed a cease fire - wonder what he will say
  
• upgraded 6 of my 8 cannons to artillary, will upgrade the other 2 next turn and then 100% ahead on Electricity
  
• I also positioned 3 spies on various tiles - I see more EP spending on the horizon - this EP spending is actually trying to achieve something, will provide more details later.
  

[Ruff_Hi]

• Cities
  • FF*: Machine Gun -> Airport [1]
    
  • LQ*: Artillery -> Mining Exec [1]
    
  • DV*: Infantry [1]
    
  • BH*: Machine Gun -> Public Transport [1]
    
  • BS*: Infantry [4]
    
  • AC*: Infantry -> Paratrooper [2]
    
  • TN*: Airship -> Fighter [2]
    
  • KS*: Forge -> Fighter [3]
    
  • SL: Explorer [1], Mt Rushmore [5]
    
  • MD*: Forge -> Fighter [3]
    
  • EC*: Forge -> Fighter [3]
    
  • NB*: Forge [2]
    
• Tech: Electricity [6], -182g at 100% science, 191g in the bank
  
• Opponent Tech
  • sooooo - Flight [5], 269g, -13g @ 50% tech
    
  • mostly harmless - Artillery [1], 354g, down from 476g last turn (negative)
    

I finished my upgrades ... all cannons are now artillery. I've started to build an air force that will be positioned at Shangri-La. I've also started to build some explorers to block Greek paratroopers from jumping into the hidden paradise. I've decided that I will make every effort to pillage Sooooo's oil.

He has 2 - one that my fighters can reach and one way up in the North West - I'll have to use spies for that one.

[Ruff_Hi]

email update to Dreylin ...

Dreylin,

I've been trying to catch you on google chat so that we can update each other on the game. I love that Sooooo has laid down some railroads - my spies are now much quicker through his territory (bet he doesn't know that). However, I want to keep oil out of his hands. So, I will be bombing his Eastern oil with fighters out of Shangri Lai and EPing his Western oil with spies. That should keep his workers busy.

My costs are around 200g per turn but I requested 300g for the first turn just to give me a little bit of a buffer (those pesky costs always seem to creep up). I've got an airport in FF and so I can now jump some units across to SL (mining exec, Conf missionary, explorers, etc). I am going to set up SL as a bombing base. Do you have any idea what happens to plains if the fort is destroyed? Are they destroyed or pushed back to cities?

Ruff

@Lurkers ... any idea what happens to planes in forts when the fort is bombed?

[Krill]

I think they are destroyed; same with boats.

[Ruff_Hi]

Just WB'd a test case and the planes get bumped to a legal location (other fort or city). Not sure what happens if there aren't any but I don't expect to ever be in that situation. That is good - would hate to stock up my Shangri Lai bombing division only to have it totally knocked out by destroying the forts.

[Ruff_Hi]

• Cities
  • FF*: Airport -> Paratrooper [1]
    
  • LQ*: Mining Exec -> Fighter [1]
    
  • DV*: Infantry -> Fighter [1]
    
  • BH*: Public Transport -> Paratrooper [1]
    
  • BS*: Infantry [3]
    
  • AC*: Paratrooper [1]
    
  • TN*: Fighter [1]
    
  • KS*: Fighter [1]
    
  • SL: Explorer -> Explorer [1], Mt Rushmore [5]
    
  • MD*: Forge -> Fighter [2]
    
  • EC*: Forge -> Fighter [2]
    
  • NB*: Forge [1]
    
• Tech: Electricity [5], -184g at 100% science, 309g in the bank
  
• Opponent Tech
  • sooooo - Flight [5], 300g, -14g @ 50% tech
    
  • mostly harmless - finished Artillery, 8g, down from 354g last turn (negative)
    

My exec moved to FF, heading via airport to SL. My fighters are heading there too to start bombing practice against Sooooo's oil. Sooooo has started to reinforce his back yard cities (infantry in capital and city near Eastern oil). Obviously concerned about some paratrooper activity ... as am I - my explorer builds at SL continue so that I can block those tiles.

Also had a bit of spy fun ... 3 less lumber yards that Sooooo needs to maintain. Only cost me about 220 EPs which is cheap considering that I am generating 101 of them every turn.

[Ruff_Hi]

• Cities:
  • FF*: Paratrooper -> Paratrooper [1]
    
  • LQ*: Fighter -> Artillery [1]
    
  • DV*: Fighter -> Factory [4]
    
  • BH*: Paratrooper -> Artillery [1]
    
  • BS*: Infantry [2]
    
  • AC*: Paratrooper -> Artillery [1]
    
  • TN*: Fighter -> Fighter [2]
    
  • KS*: Fighter -> Fighter [2]
    
  • SL: Explorer -> Explorer [1], Mt Rushmore [5]
    
  • MD*: Fighter [1]
    
  • EC*: Fighter [1]
    
  • NB*: Forge -> Granary [1]
    
• Tech: Electricity [4], -195g at 100% science, 325g in the bank
  
• Opponent Tech:
  • sooooo - Flight [3], 291g, -6g @ 50% tech
    
  • mostly harmless - Industrialism [76], 287g, up from 8g last turn (+275gpt)
    

I have 4 fighters ready to bomb the Eastern oil and 7 spies ready to do their stuff on the Western oil. The 3 successful spies from last turn have started their 4 turn trip to the Western oil. I really like Sooooo's railway system - it is speeding my spies to his oil. He has started to rebuild those 2 lumber yards (12 wasted worker turns )

[Ruff_Hi]

• Cities:
  • FF: Paratrooper -> Paratrooper [1]
    
  • LQ: Artillery -> Infantry [2]
    
  • DV: Conf Missionary [1], Factory [4]
    
  • BH: Artillery -> Paratrooper[1]
    
  • BS: Infantry [1]
    
  • AC: Artillery -> Infantry [2]
    
  • TN: Fighter [1]
    
  • KS: Fighter [1]
    
  • SL: Explorer -> Mt Rushmore [2]
    
  • MD: Fighter -> Fighter [3]
    
  • EC: Fighter -> Fighter [3]
    
  • NB: Granary -> Fighter [3]
    
• Tech: Electricity [3], -200g at 100% science, 279g in the bank
  
• Opponent Tech:
  • sooooo - Flight [2], 302g, +27g @ 50% tech (finished Wall St!)
    
  • mostly harmless - Industrialism [71], 302g, up from 287g last turn (+271gpt)
    

Sooooo has lost his oil well - until he spends 5 worker turns to reconnect it. I also bombed 3 farms, cutting his irrigated corn at his capital ... oh dear ... it is now starving.

I've removed the '*' from the cities as now all of my cities have Mining Inc. I can revolt back to Bureaucracy next turn ... so 1 more draft out of Death Valley and it is back to growth / tech mode. I need to talk to Dreylin to find out where he is regarding tech.

[Ruff_Hi]

email exchange with Dreylin ...

Dreylin,

I have 2 more turns on Electricity. How are you going with Biology? And who is going where next? Obvious techs are Radio for bombers and Industrialism for Tanks.

BTW - Sooooo currently has no oil and I can keep him having to build wells for quite a while.

Ruff

Hey Ruff,

I probably won't have time to play the turn today; about to set out to travel back from the UK ... which is currently in the grip of snowy weather so fingers crossed!

I haven't been able to spend much time on Bio yet, what with feeding gold to you and running upgrades for my slightly-disasterous attack on mh. (Frontal assault was turned back, but he pulled all his Northern forces down to help, so I managed to burn his remaining coastal city and am now moving on his Tundra Oil city).

Anyway, Bio is probably about 1/3 complete and would take 2-3t depending on how much I can afford to put into teching. mh has just started Indusrialism (currently in 74t) so we probably need to go for that next, but I don't think you should underestimate the importance of Rocketry for SAM Infantry. My recent assault was well-blunted by strafing from mh's Airships, let alone how bad it would have been if he had Fighters. MGs do have a chance of interception, but it can't compare with a SAM with 2x Intercept promotions.
Anyway, if you went Ind next, and I'll finish off Bio then we can work out the next step...?

Dreylin.

Hmm - Dreylin raises a 3rd option ... Rocketry for air intercept. I cannot help but think that is defensive thinking. We have got so far because we have been first to the offensive techs (steel, combustion, etc). I really think we need to push for tanks or bombers. Personally, given my map set up, bombers is the way to go. Infantry should be more than able to kill half strenght tanks .

[Ruff_Hi]

more emails ...

Dreylin,

I think that diverting to rocketry just to pick up sam infantry is negative thinking. Sure, greater chance of knocking done those planes, but not by much. I think the solution is MORE UNITS in multiple locations. That is what I am trying to do with Sooooo. Can you bring in some air cover in forward positions to stop the bombardment?

I am going to head towards radio after electricity. You on industrialism would be good - but knocking off Biology would certainly help some of my cities.

Ruff

Ruff,

Why Radio; I'd though Industrialism was more important for us next to counter their run for Tanks?

I don't really see that "more units" is a very good solution to prevent an enemy from shredding you with air cover as your stack advances. Say that soooo has 12 Airships/Fighters in range of his frontlines; your stack has 3t(?) in his culture before you reach his city walls and can attack, so that's potentially 36 units he can damage as you march up. These will be the 36 best defensive units, so when you reach the tile outside his walls, all he has to do is send in a half-dozen Artillery and your stack is toast.

Yes, masses and masses more units will let you ignore the injured ones, however during the time it takes for you to build all those units, won't sooooo also be doing the same thing? and building better units?

Or you can concentrate on straffing his defensive units with your forward air cover; only they're sitting in a city with a GG Medic, so as long as they haven't moved that turn they'll be healthy by the time it comes to attack you anyway.

Currently the only units we have that can intercept an incoming aerial bombardment are the MGs. Yes, you can build a huge pile of them and increase the odds of each attack being intercepted, but an MG only has a 20% Interception chance, can't kill the attacking unit (unless it's already injured), and is not really much good once you reach the city walls and need to attack. SAM Infantry have a native 40% Interception chance, but key is also that they can promote Interception 1 & 2 to increase that chance up to 70%. Oh, and they are also able to attack, so are not nearly as useless as the MGs when the time does come to assault the walls.

I'll admit that I understaffed my recent assault on mh and that contributed to it's lack of success, however if he had not been able to weaken my top units - and keep them weak turn after turn - then the results would have been much less certain.

Maybe it is negative thinking to research Rocketry for an immediate "Defensive" unit, however right now we have no effective counter for their Air Force while we're advancing, and they are about to upgrade to Fighters. Besides, we are going to be throwing nukes at them at some point, right...?

Anyway, I have some re-grouping to do before I can mount another full offensive (rather than nibbling around the edges), what's your situation?

Dreylin.

I hate nukes and will never use them in a pbem game.

My bomber desire is so that I can bomb Sooooo back to the stone age and then send in my troops.

Ruff

Fair enough on the Nukes; personally I'll keep my options open on using them.

Sounds like you're pretty set on Radio; I like Bombers as much as the next guy, but I just don't see them as the next most vital piece of the puzzle. Since you're heading off on a pet project, I don't see a problem with my going Rocketry next. Guess Industrialism can wait.

Depending on what TOG does. I'll finish Electricity and then start saving money. It will also leave our options open.

Ruff

Hey Ruff,

It's quite possible that I've been operating under the assumption that the Fighter's "Intercept" mission is a lot less useful than it really is. For some reason I thought it only applied to aircraft entering a very limited radius around the stationed Fighter's location, but after a suggestion from a lurker I re-read the Civlopedia entry and that says it applies for the full flight radius of the Fighter. If that's the case then I've been seriously mis-playing air cover and my recent attack on mh.

Um, yeah, so not good and I've also mis-valued Rocketry for the same reason. Maybe I'll research Industrialism next after all....

In the interests of not overlapping our efforts, what are your intentions regarding the Radio Wonders? I'm guessing that Cristo is not on your list (and would be useful on mine to get me into Free Market... 9-) ), but how about Eiffel and Rock'nRoll, and Broadway too for that matter - though at least the latter two are peripheral to our current aims.

Dreylin,

Interesting stuff about the fighters and intercept. I always thought they could intercept out to their range ... but that you have to have them on the 'intercept' mission. I might set up a hot seat game to test that.

Radio wonders

Cristo is interesting for denial but it doesn't really do much for me ... except totally remove the 'wait 5 turns' item.
Eiffel tower - free broadcast tower anyone? Not worth it to me and I'll just build one if this game descends into a Cultural victory race
RnR - happy to accept song as trade
Broadway - ditto

oh - but they are also +50% culture in city - more cultural victory stuff.

In short - not interested in building them ... will be putting hammers into units.

Firstly - I really do hate nukes in mp games and I will never use them. See here for background. Secondly - I think I am done chasing wonders (famous last words ). However, reading between the lines, it looks like Dreylin might be setting himself up for a late game run at a Cultural Victory.

From my point of view, I can see myself winning via space. Do that, I must take all of Sooooo's land and cottage it. I have to get my tech rate up to match Dreylin's - the other option is that I pour my commerce into espionage, let Dreylin research the techs and I just steal them - doesn't really work if he is going culture but I should be able to pick up some that way. My production is certainly better than his on a city by city basis given my Corporation. I did (sort of) promise Dreylin an Exec but I have been re-thinking that.

It all hinges on how quickly I can remove Sooooo.

... and post #700 in this thread.