Astronaut without sin confounds press, invites trio to control civilization

[novice]

Cataphracts trying to visit Egypt would be nasty business indeed.

Fortunately Byzantium's only iron is right on our border, and is still jungled and unroaded.

[spacemanmf]

I had to have that one explained to me, too. He's using "and" in the sense of "plus", not the logical AND operation.

So: DEAD + 1 + 1 = DEAF

Ah ok. I know of hexadecimal, but the phrase hex had me thinking of Civ 5. Brrrr!

[spacemanmf]

Sure thing. I didn't balance the over-ocean stuff particularly intensely, figuring that proximity was less of a claim in the new world than getting Astronomy first. You're seeing script-generated landmasses, by and large.

Hang on, is that fish out of reach?

[Rowain]

Fortunately Byzantium's only iron is right on our border, and is still jungled and unroaded.

There is still the possibility of trade.

[NobleHelium]

Hang on, is that fish out of reach?

Yeah that looks like an unreachable fish to me.

[Ceiliazul]

Yeah that looks like an unreachable fish to me.

I think the map generator left a pre-astronomy path to the outlying islands there. The island got deleted but he fish was forgotten i guess.

And verily, it will taunt you forever, and haunt your dreams. Little Egyptian children will talk about 'the fish no one could catch' and reports of the size of the legedary creature will grow until one day modern Egyptians will stand before the Alpha Centauri colony ship... and refuse to enter because it is shaped vaguely fish-like.

And they'll lose the game because of that unreachable fish.:neenernee

[SevenSpirits]

Back. Got a quick look at the most recent save. Forgive me if I've missed anything in your last posts; I read them on my phone.

I noticed that the Mausoleum is in Thebes - quite accessible to our navy. Something to keep in mind anyway. If we could capture it the turn we finish Taj (even to lose it again the following turn) that would obviously be amazing. Such shenanigans are unlikely but worth thinking about.

That iron in atlantis is great news for us. We won't be without iron. Woot!

We should check if Mackoti can transfer ships to the eastern sea.

What was mackoti's GNP spike? (Looks like it was on the last turn of his GA?) Has he teched anything since Optics?

Are you following the gpp plan so far?

[SevenSpirits]

One micro idea (maybe you've thought of this exact sequence already, not sure):

t90:
Dione: -coast x2, +gold, +oasis. Gets 5 of the 11 food it needs.
Europa: -gold, -oasis, +mine, + moai coast. still gets 3f to grow in 1, but also gets up to 16h for the bonus and to reach 20h.

t91:
Dione: -gold +coast, grows
Europa: +gold

Unrelated: It doesn't look like anyone's made progress towards liberalism. Thus we may need to move on it ourselves or someone will get too much reward for it.

If we have time to research Paper, Education, Printing Press, Liberalism (5600b not counting the 20%+ bonus; 4666 counting it) and get two scientists, we'll be able to double-bulb Scientific Method and Liberalize for Communism or Physics. (Physics is 33% more expensive, I think Communism is better though with Kremlin and an Econ civic.) I guess that's if no one else is in a hurry, since it pretty means we don't use bulbs to speed up Education with a bulb. At current rates (which we are pushing unsustainably, but they are increasing, so on balance is a good near-term estimate) this would take 18 turns (after finishing Nationalism) i.e. t108. Therefore this seems fairly implausible.

Hm, let's consider our GPs we'll get for a bit. If we pop a merchant in Charon he can get to Last Exile by t95. (Let's make sure we can use both the nearby galleons to speed him S as soon as he pops, thus making the gold come ASAP.) Titan only needs ~4fpt to grow to 16 by eot94, which makes the mission be worth (I think) 1139g. With our current gold/beaker skew that translates into about 5t of tech (1250b). We can burn through it in 3-4 turns.

t96 we can get another gold infusion from the likely merchant from Titania, so we can basically stay at max research starting t95. Thus we'd get Liberalism t100. (250bpt for t91-94; 600bpt for t95-100 = 4600 and our target is 4666; seems doable.) Not sure whether that's fast enough, if our competitors are bulbing. But OK, I'm convinced that it MIGHT be possible and if so we should consider it. Why? Well, we want Biology a lot. In this tech path we then follow up with Gunpowder - Construction - Engineering - Chemistry - Biology, during our Taj Golden age which should come in around t100 too.
* We are able to skip Monarchy - Feudalism - Guilds - Banking for a while because we are getting Communism as our economic civic. (Its gnp effects are probably similar to Merc or Free Market. And it has extra production on top of that.)
* We will get the amazing Kremlin (at its best with mass farms).
* We get a great spy for another golden age.
* Militarily we'll have Frigates (awesome), Musketmen (great draftees) and Catapults/Trebs, so we will both be safe and potentially able to attack.

Another possible tech path that doesn't use Liberalism is Monarchy-Feudalism-Guilds-Banking-Gunpowder-Paper-Printing Press-Replaceable Parts-Rifling. This requires about 8100b and would get us Rifling about t103, I'm guessing. It is unable to use our two (likely) scientists so still has those sitting around, however. (Reminder: our scientists arrive rather late - t96 and t97. So they're not much help in speeding Liberalism up much before t100.)

Another possibility is we'll get an engineer in Charon. In this case we could immediately build the Taj, so we'll want to reconsider our tech path in this case.

Final possibility to consider planning is getting music right now and using it immediately - with the Charon GP who has to not be an artist - to start a golden age. This probably gives us 100 extra commerce per turn or so and also might speed up the other great people. But, 100/turn only about covers the cost of music, so it doesn't seem productive at all, actually.

This is all kind of speculative. It's quite possible we'll just want to pick up small useful techs for a while yet, or to Liberalize something easy like Printing Press.

Oh btw, there might be the possibility of simply Libbing for SciMeth and researching Communism after. This would be faster since we can burn the scientists on Education and PP. I assume we could get it t98 or 99 then since the major block would probably become the scientists.

[novice]

Are you following the gpp plan so far?

I think so. Here's the GPP status from turn 88:



On turn 89 I worked an extra river farm in Callisto to replenish some food, and because Tethys will want it on t90. Titania used two of its four surplus specialist-turns to finish the library on t90. Charon is now food neutral and generating 30GPP for a great person eot91.

[novice]

One micro idea (maybe you've thought of this exact sequence already, not sure):

t90:
Dione: -coast x2, +gold, +oasis. Gets 5 of the 11 food it needs.
Europa: -gold, -oasis, +mine, + moai coast. still gets 3f to grow in 1, but also gets up to 16h for the bonus and to reach 20h.

t91:
Dione: -gold +coast, grows
Europa: +gold

Unrelated: It doesn't look like anyone's made progress towards liberalism. Thus we may need to move on it ourselves or someone will get too much reward for it.

If we have time to research Paper, Education, Printing Press, Liberalism (5600b not counting the 20%+ bonus; 4666 counting it) and get two scientists, we'll be able to double-bulb Scientific Method and Liberalize for Communism or Physics. (Physics is 33% more expensive, I think Communism is better though with Kremlin and an Econ civic.) I guess that's if no one else is in a hurry, since it pretty means we don't use bulbs to speed up Education with a bulb. At current rates (which we are pushing unsustainably, but they are increasing, so on balance is a good near-term estimate) this would take 18 turns (after finishing Nationalism) i.e. t108. Therefore this seems fairly implausible.

Hm, let's consider our GPs we'll get for a bit. If we pop a merchant in Charon he can get to Last Exile by t95. (Let's make sure we can use both the nearby galleons to speed him S as soon as he pops, thus making the gold come ASAP.) Titan only needs ~4fpt to grow to 16 by eot94, which makes the mission be worth (I think) 1139g. With our current gold/beaker skew that translates into about 5t of tech (1250b). We can burn through it in 3-4 turns.

t96 we can get another gold infusion from the likely merchant from Titania, so we can basically stay at max research starting t95. Thus we'd get Liberalism t100. (250bpt for t91-94; 600bpt for t95-100 = 4600 and our target is 4666; seems doable.) Not sure whether that's fast enough, if our competitors are bulbing. But OK, I'm convinced that it MIGHT be possible and if so we should consider it. Why? Well, we want Biology a lot. In this tech path we then follow up with Gunpowder - Construction - Engineering - Chemistry - Biology, during our Taj Golden age which should come in around t100 too.
* We are able to skip Monarchy - Feudalism - Guilds - Banking for a while because we are getting Communism as our economic civic. (Its gnp effects are probably similar to Merc or Free Market. And it has extra production on top of that.)
* We will get the amazing Kremlin (at its best with mass farms).
* We get a great spy for another golden age.
* Militarily we'll have Frigates (awesome), Musketmen (great draftees) and Catapults/Trebs, so we will both be safe and potentially able to attack.

Another possible tech path that doesn't use Liberalism is Monarchy-Feudalism-Guilds-Banking-Gunpowder-Paper-Printing Press-Replaceable Parts-Rifling. This requires about 8100b and would get us Rifling about t103, I'm guessing. It is unable to use our two (likely) scientists so still has those sitting around, however. (Reminder: our scientists arrive rather late - t96 and t97. So they're not much help in speeding Liberalism up much before t100.)

Another possibility is we'll get an engineer in Charon. In this case we could immediately build the Taj, so we'll want to reconsider our tech path in this case.

Final possibility to consider planning is getting music right now and using it immediately - with the Charon GP who has to not be an artist - to start a golden age. This probably gives us 100 extra commerce per turn or so and also might speed up the other great people. But, 100/turn only about covers the cost of music, so it doesn't seem productive at all, actually.

This is all kind of speculative. It's quite possible we'll just want to pick up small useful techs for a while yet, or to Liberalize something easy like Printing Press.

Oh btw, there might be the possibility of simply Libbing for SciMeth and researching Communism after. This would be faster since we can burn the scientists on Education and PP. I assume we could get it t98 or 99 then since the major block would probably become the scientists.

This sounds like a good medium term plan. I'm definitely in favour of Biology soon. That also means we can go for Corporation and Medicine longer term. Some other points to consider:
- There are some worthwhile spots to settle in East Atlantis. Titan and/or Ganymede can produce some quick settlers. (Where are we building Taj?)
- Do we want to take preventive measures vs. Yuri? It will be quite some time yet before he has his Cataphracts force ready, but do we want to take him out (or at least Thessalonica) with Maces from Galleons before he has too many longbows defending? Or do we think we'll be one era ahead soon enough.
- What do we do with the Mackoti war?
- I assume we run Rep/Nationhood/Caste/Pacifism starting t91.