RBP3 [SPOILERS] - Friendly Kittens (Ragnar of Maya)

[Maniac Marshall]

Looking over the map in the west. Based on where Byz is going to settle, we appear to have 2 alternatives:



We could either plant "Marble Garden Zone" and eventully a filler city north of it on the river which overlaps a lot (we could also move it off the river 1N I believe) OR we could plant Health City. Now, at first glance, that's a weaker spot, being off the river. And it is. The advantage to planting Health City, however, is that we get those ultra rare bananas second ring. Thats 2 extra health with a grocer. We'd still get them EVENTUALY when the city popped 3rd ring, but that's a long way off. Opinions?

EDIT: After giving it some thought, it's only 100 culture to pop 3rd ring. We could concentrate on culture there and pop it quickly if we need to right?

[Maniac Marshall]

I've done what I wanted to do this turn other than I have NOT yet moved the settler just in case you dissagree with me about settling red first, though I really think that's by far our best move, since not only won't the road be done in time for Smiths, but we won't have a missionary for it either if we settle it first. I think it's stronger to settle red 3 turns earlier and smiths 2 turns later. It's one extra city turn.

There are still some worker actions that need doing and some military to move around if you feel it needs moving.

I've changed my mind again about Temminck. It's plenty happy. I think we should lift off the gold next turn and work a plains tile instead so we come up 2 hammers short on the duct, then we can whip it 2 hammers short and with the overflow, get a 1 turn worker. With planting 3 cities in 10 turns, we need the workers. This will give us 3 workers over the same period (one from FS, Temminck, and PR) which will give us 16 for 10 cities, which is a little low, but we can work on that. The only other city we'd be founding in the near term would be Savannah, so we could concentrate on making workers for the next 10 turns, then try to push out the another wave of cities.

[Maniac Marshall]

Anyone (on this team or otherwise) still following this thread? I'll post a T125 update with pictures if even 1 person wants it, but, these things are several hours work, and, if it's just for my benefit, I'll pass...

[Maniac Marshall]

Turn rolled. The turn timer has been extended to 36 hours for right now as of this turn.

Apparently there is something about whipping a near completed building so that it rolls over that I didn't understand. I assumed if I whipped the monastery when it had 58/60 hammers in it I would get the following result:

58 + 45 = 103 + 4 (hammers being worked) = 107 - 60 = 47 rollover hammers.

47 + 10 food + 3 hammers = 60 = worker.

However, somehow, working 1 hammer from the city center, +2 from the monastery, + 2 from the gems mine = 45 hammers + 10 food, or in other words, I have screwed the pooch yet again as it will take 2 turns to complete the worker. I'm not sure where the hammers went, but someone could probably explain it. Sadly, I could have just let the monastery complete and double whipped the worker. Meh. I have screwed us yet again.

EDIT: Ah, never mind, I get it now. The displayed and expected whip/rollover hammers got "unmultiplied" because they are being applied this turn and to a non building, so it's 8 less "lost" hammers. Blech.

Now that I get this, Hopefully I won't screw this up again. Meh, should have kept the sandbox up and I would have figured this out before I screwed it up.

Nevermind. After some tile finageling, I have managed to JUST get the worker in 1 turn to the exact food/hammer. =)

[RefSteel]

I'm of course following the thread. I can rarely post due to the real-life issues mentioned. An update would be great of course, but I understand the time crunch (obviously!) - I don't think I can log into the game at present, as computer problems are among the ones I'm dealing with, but if I clear enough time to try, we'll see.

Most of what you posted sounds great to me. Don't beat yourself up over silly mistakes; everyone makes them; probably no one on the team or any team has made none. Seriously, mistakes like this just aren't that big a deal, especially since we no longer have a hyper-detailed microplan to work with. (Little stuff is magnified when it obviates hours of planning work. When it doesn't, it's just a turn of production in one of many cities in a fun but silly game.)

Health City looks quite decent and has the marginal advantage of being able to hook Marble whenever we want it (and have the worker turns available in the area.) I think I still like MGZ better, but I'm not sure; I'd have to think about it more and see a larger view of the region. On the whole though, I'd be okay with it either way.

Your plan for city order is fine, which is good since I presume you're already following it.

I saw Byzantium's ludicrous response to your stone quarry, and would like to note we don't need stone from them; there are ways to preserve overflow if needed. I do think a regular university is a fine build if we need something to build while waiting for stone though.

I'd like to avoid a ball court in HV if possible - aren't we swimming in happy already? - especially if we'll have drama soon, since it's 80 hammers wasted once/if the globe goes there. Admittedly, I don't know when/where the other 7 theaters will go (one in Blue Dot, please!) so the ball-of-string court might be necessary assuming HV continues to grow like a weed. Note however that hindu temple and theater will each cover their own unhappiness if whipped.

[Maniac Marshall]

I'm of course following the thread. I can rarely post due to the real-life issues mentioned. An update would be great of course, but I understand the time crunch (obviously!) - I don't think I can log into the game at present, as computer problems are among the ones I'm dealing with, but if I clear enough time to try, we'll see.

I looked earlier and saw you hadn't logged in at all in a while. I know you're busy. Just wave at me once in a while for moral support if it's what you can manage =)

Most of what you posted sounds great to me. Don't beat yourself up over silly mistakes; everyone makes them; probably no one on the team or any team has made none. Seriously, mistakes like this just aren't that big a deal, especially since we no longer have a hyper-detailed microplan to work with. (Little stuff is magnified when it obviates hours of planning work. When it doesn't, it's just a turn of production in one of many cities in a fun but silly game.)

I actually found an out for this. I borrowed a mine from the cap (which is making a settler) for 1 turn. It's working a farm instead. I then used 2 workers to finish a 3/5 done plains forest and viola! the worker completes to the exact food/hammer! (and Maniac feels slightly less stupid now)

Health City looks quite decent and has the marginal advantage of being able to hook Marble whenever we want it (and have the worker turns available in the area.) I think I still like MGZ better, but I'm not sure; I'd have to think about it more and see a larger view of the region. On the whole though, I'd be okay with it either way.

Your plan for city order is fine, which is good since I presume you're already following it.

Yeah. Had to make the call before the turn rolled. Waited till an hour or so was left on the timer and, with the lack of input to the contrary, made a command decision.

I saw Byzantium's ludicrous response to your stone quarry, and would like to note we don't need stone from them; there are ways to preserve overflow if needed. I do think a regular university is a fine build if we need something to build while waiting for stone though.

Yeah, I thought I made a good offer actually. They have one worker in the area, It'll take them at least 10 turns to hook those gems, probably more. I'd have been willing to loan them some worker turns or give them a small sum of gold, but TWO workers? No way in hell. I cant imagine anyone but MAYBE India building Sankore anyway.

I'd like to avoid a ball court in HV if possible - aren't we swimming in happy already? - especially if we'll have drama soon, since it's 80 hammers wasted once/if the globe goes there. Admittedly, I don't know when/where the other 7 theaters will go (one in Blue Dot, please!) so the ball-of-string court might be necessary assuming HV continues to grow like a weed. Note however that hindu temple and theater will each cover their own unhappiness if whipped.

The theater will more than cover since we have dyes. I'll think about avoiding the BC. The point behind the BC is we're going to be whipping the crap out of that city. Like, every 2-3 turns. It grows EVERY turn (+18 food!). The BC was just the right size to overflow into the monastery as well... but, it does have 17 happy faces, soon to be 18 with the silks... If we keep it at size 12 or less, even if we whip it every other turn, it never has more than 5 whip anger right? 5 +12 = 17... so yeah, it doesn't need the BC... I think... I'll run the #'s but, I think it should whip a grocer instead. (In fact, we should build these instead of Aquaducts where possible. Once we get the banannas that's 4 extra health) I do plan to go ahead with getting a great person from there. It WILL need a grocer eventually, and that's 2 merchants it can run. It has a Forge, that's an Engineer. The Temple is a priest... Would you prefer a library or a Market there? At which point it can work... well, a lot of specialists and crank out a GP in 10 turns or so.

[Maniac Marshall]

Morgan, I sent this to you in PM but I'll post it here too just in case you don't see it there right away:

Hey, I'm really sorry to hear your bad news. Don't worry about finishing this turn. I'll get it when I get home. I was just trying to give you something to do to keep you involved. I'll make a bigger post about stuff when I get home.

[RefSteel]

Morgan - I didn't hear whatever news Maniac referred to, but hope all's well with you!

I actually found an out for this. I borrowed a mine from the cap (which is making a settler) for 1 turn.

Cool.

Yeah. Had to make the call before the turn rolled.

Naturally - and you made the correct call, in my opinion.

On Sankore: When can we get stone from a PAT civ (assuming no DoW shenanigans)? We might be able to complete U Sankore within five turns of getting Stone ... at Hukawng Valley! Given a known ETA for stone, a current screenshot of HV including hammers invested in build(s) would tell me for sure (I'd have to take a little time to work it out though). No, we wouldn't be whipping the wonder; we'd be using what I call a "whip cascade" -- a trick I discovered when I was playing Adventure 45. (Screenie of Fierias would be nice too as it still might be faster.)

The theater will more than cover since we have dyes. I'll think about avoiding the BC. The point behind the BC is we're going to be whipping the crap out of that city. Like, every 2-3 turns.

Exactly. The only reason NOT to build the Ball Court is that we'll hopefully get the Globe into that city.

[Maniac Marshall]

I'll provide said screenies (and a proper T125 report) when I get home. The cap would be capable of 40hpt/80hpt with stone, so it's a 6.875 turn build there.

I'm vasciallating over what to whip in HV next. It might be necessary to whip a market and grocer and run merchants to appease our alliance mates who are concerned about our rising maint costs (though England discovered that our costs are almost identical so there's less worry about that now).

[RefSteel]

I just did it as a thought experiment, and the capital is definitely better if we're willing to whip it ~twice. I'll try to post a suggestion for how to do it by the end of the weekend if I know when we'll get stone.

I'll provide said screenies (and a proper T125 report) when I get home. The cap would be capable of 40hpt/80hpt with stone, so it's a 6.875 turn build there.

Not quite; I meant to correct this on Kilrah too: Multipliers don't multiply each other. So 20 base hammers at the cap translates to 35 for a unit, 40 for a building, or *60* for Sakore-with-stone, Mandir-with-marble, etc. Likewise, a plains hill mine at Kilrah generates "only" 9 hammers toward military units (but is still very worthwhile given Kilrah's size except that we probably still want the city to grow).

I'm vasciallating over what to whip in HV next. It might be necessary to whip a market and grocer and run merchants to appease our alliance mates who are concerned about our rising maint costs (though England discovered that our costs are almost identical so there's less worry about that now).

Does the place have a temple yet? If not, and it does have a Monastery, I think any overflow we may have should go into anything-but-a-temple; when generating no overflow in a turn, we should then put a turn (4 hammers, including multipliers) into the temple; this will allow it to be triple-whipped for maximum overflow.