The Dark arts - C&D Master Thread

[Sullla]

Apolyton definitely discovered Sailing tech this turn. We can change around past data if necessary, but the arrival of foreign trade routes makes it all but a certainty that this was their choice. They didn't discover it particularly fast either, since it took them 5t to research a tech that costs 180 beakers. They must be running break-even research or saving gold for a later tech.

[Sian]

T83 - 800BC
One thing I'm curious about is the trade figures. +10 as the rival best is easily explained by 5 cities with international trade routes, but -18 as the rival worst? No team has 9 cities as far as I can tell, and I believed cities couldn't support more than a single outgoing trade route.

A city can supply as many trade routes as needed, but a civ can only gain a trade route to each foreign city once.

Hence its probably most logical to consider that, together with our trade routes to Germany, that Apolyton lives somewhere near them and have defogged a route to them, and for some reason only trading with 4 of their cities, while their 5'th city trades with someone else

[NobleHelium]

What's our current projected map of the world and the locations of the civs again?

[novice]

One thing I'm curious about is the trade figures. +10 as the rival best is easily explained by 5 cities with international trade routes, but -18 as the rival worst? No team has 9 cities as far as I can tell, and I believed cities couldn't support more than a single outgoing trade route.

One city can support trade routes to different civs though, so I guess this indicates that the -18 team is either the Germans or WPC. You can probably figure out which one by checking how many trade routes we're getting from each of them.

Fake edit: I see Sian said something similar on the next page...

[kjn]

Then it's Apolyton who is getting trade routes with the Germans. We have four routes each with WPC and the Germans, but the Germans have five cities.

Apolyton is located west of the Germans, so that also fits with the trade routes going from Apolyton to the Germans.

[kjn]

WPC has responded to the German attack by upgrading a warrior to a dog soldier (-80 gold, +4000 power). I hope for their sake that they have some more and more effective ways lined up to defend their cities. In their shoes, I'd rather upgrade to a spearman anyway, if one were to do an upgrade and the German force mix.

Their army stands at 1 warrior, 6 dog soldiers, and 3 archers.

[kjn]

Another thing that has been lying around that I intended to post about: resource hookups.

The Germans currently has 7 connected resources:

Gold
Copper & horse
Corn, cow, rice, and sheep

We also know they have access to a jungled pig.

WPC has 6 connected resources:

Gold
Copper
Corn, Cow, Deer, Sheep

Both teams may have access to more resources (particularly food) that is improved but not connected.

For comparison, we have the following connected:

Gold, gems
Copper
Clam, 2xCorn, Deer, Fish

We also have iron and pigs improved but not connected.

[Sullla]

We also have two cattle tile improved but unconnected, at Tree Huggers and Seven Tribes. Without knowing the full extent of their unconnected resources, it's hard to make any specific comparisons. At least we know that neither team has any luxuries beyond their nearby gold tile.

[kjn]

T84 - 775 BC

Cliff's Notes: A Great Scientist was born in foreign lands. The main candidate is Apolyton, with CivFr as the main alternate candidate. The Spanish researched a classical tech, tentatively Mathematics, and grew to 17 pop. Apolyton grew to 22 pop. The Germans grew to 15 pop. CivFr researched an ancient tech, tentatively Masonry, and grew to 28 pop. CivPlayers grew to 23 pop.

Demos, cities, and log:

The big foreign news this turn was the birth of the second great person of the game, another great scientist. The previous one was born on T68. A PHI team working two scientists will get a GS in 9 turns, and their second one in 16 turns (provided they work 2 scientists constantly in one city, ie 25 turns at 12 GPP each). So I think it's quite likely that it's Apolyton that has born their second scientist, though CivFr is also a possibility - they completed their first libraries at end of turn 62 and 63, and the first was probably completed via chops.

Team	Score change	Pop	Tech	Land	Wonders
RB	21	5 (+2; 31 total)			+16 (Kashi Vishnawath)
Spanish	15	3 (+1; 17 total)	12 (classical; Iron Working?)
Apolyton	5	5 (+2; 22 total)
Germans	3	3 (+1; 15 total)
CivFr	8	2 (+1; 28 total)	6 (ancient; Masonry?)
CivPlayers	2	2 (+1; 23 total)

(Yes, I already included our new shrine in the breakdown, despite not building it yet.)

No land was claimed on T64, so there are no land points in the score increases. Rival global population rose with 316000, rival best with 105000, and rival worst with 15000. F8 analysis tells us there were 7 new pop points (rival and barbarian). The rival global power rose with 12000, and rival worst with 6000. Apolyton and CivFr increased their power from pop with 1000 each. APTmod data tells us WPC increased their power with 4000.

The top cities screen shows that CivFr grew their second city to size 8 (founded in 2720 BC). The Germans grew a size 2 city to size 3, but I didn't note down if it was one of the cities we have visibility on. CivPlayers grew their capital to size 6, and another team, in all likelihood Apolyton, grew their capital to size 7.

That leaves one pop point for a barbarians, they are up to 8 pop points now.

With an unknown power increase of 6000 from tech and units, and a classical tech in 13t, I pencil in Mathematics for the Spanish. CivFr 1-turned an ancient tech, and since average rival GNP fell despite a noticable increase in rival best GNP, I pencil in Masonry to them.

WPC's power increased with 4000 from APTmod data, as mentioned above, and they have probably built their first spearman (they should have built one far earlier).

No further actions on the war front. Claimed land increased with 13 tiles. Wismar has 42H invested, Worms 3H, and Indira has 5H.

[kjn]

T84 APTmod analysis

Lots of numbers went into this, but the main conclusions are:

Rival max in espionage rose with +6 instead of +4 at end of turn 82. This means that a team (in all probability CivPlayers) has finished a courthouse sacrificial altar now. Note that the altar was built a few turns ago, since they had to close the distance with CFC (settled T0 and no anarchy due to being SPI) first, so it was likely completed on T79 or T80.

CFC's culture generation increased with 2, likely from their library in Indira. Their gold stockpile shrank with 43g last turn. The germans lost 35g, and WPC 2g.