The Dark arts - C&D Master Thread

[Fintourist]

One greenish and mainly irrelevant question:

As Sullla stated in the turn discussion thread. We are producing 122 base beakers, but thanks to pre-req bonus and a free beaker we get to 156 actual beakers. However, these 156 beakers are not visible in our demos (our GNP < 156). If I'm not mistaken we have seen pre-req bonuses affecting the GNP (e.g. when researching Writing). What am I missing here??

[kjn]

GNP is the sum of

Code:

adjusted beakers + gold + culture + espionage points - costs

that is produced by the team. Adjusted beakers is equal to

Code:

(raw beakers + 1) * tech discount bonus

The tech discount bonus is made up of two parts, the prerequisite tech bonus, and the known tech bonus.

[Fintourist]

Oh thanks, I forgot the cost side and confused myself.. Carry on

[kjn]

Some more C&D now that we have more visibility on CFC's land:

Terasvin has 50H invested into its build. The likely options are a library, a settler, or a worker.

CFC's cottages are at the following stages of development (IIRC on the exact tile type):

FP cottage: 38 turns
Grass cottage: 12 turns
Grass cottage: 2 turns
Plains cottage: 6 turns
Plains cottage: 7 turns

Indira has three more flood plains, and I guess most of them also has mature villages or at least hamlets by now, but the cottage development for their second city seems slow to me. Our three cottages between FP and MM are at 13, 23, and 23 turns of development as of the T83 sandbox.

[mostly_harmless]

Did we miss CFC converting to Organized Religion on 900BC? Can't find it mentioned in the turn thread.

mh

[kjn]

Did we miss CFC converting to Organized Religion on 900BC? Can't find it mentioned in the turn thread.

IIRC, I mentioned it here, or Sullla did it in the turn tracking thread. But I haven't put in a notice in the C&D sheet, that's true.

[kjn]

As further evidence that ending turn doesn't matter for a team, Apolyton logged in and did a 2->1 whip. They are at 21 pop now, and thus lost 1000 in power.

Small changes in the output during the turn, but nothing major.

[mostly_harmless]

Given the apparent abundance of stone and with espionage on, I thought we have seen The Great Wall by now.

Somehow related thought:
Maybe CFC has not settled the oasis area yet, because they found a juicier stone location in their east. Too bad we won't have trade routes with them for a long time, to check.

mh

[kjn]

T85 - 750 BC

Cliff's Notes: A wonky score increase for WPC, which I believe is 1 pop and some early land points. Apolyton grew 1 pop and whipped away 3 in their capital. The Germans received land points, grew 1 pop, and researched an ancient tech. CivFr grew their capital to size 9. CFC grew 2 pop and probably researched Mathematics. Univers grew 1 pop.

Demos:

F8 analysis tells us there were 7 pop growths in total, and then Apolyton whipped away 3, for a net growth of 4.

Score change breakdown:

Team	Score change	Pop	Tech	Land	Wonders
WPC	7	+3 (+1 pop; total 17)		+4 (???)
Apolyton	-4	+3 -7 (+1 -3 pop; total 19)
Germans	13	+2 (+1 pop; total 16)	6 (Writing?)	5 (8 tiles second ring)
CivFr	3	+3 (+1 pop; total 29)
CFC	17	+5 (+2 pop; total 27)	12 (likely Mathematics)
Univers	3	+3 (+1 pop; total 29)

I think I'm running into land score discrepancies here, but I can't be sure. I couldn't give WPC 3 pop increases, since that would give 8 points and break the F8 tally. They are due for some land points next turn, and we know that the land points gets wonky at times (we got 2 too many a while ago), so I think the same is happening here, only in reverse. I hope this will clear itself up next turn. Right now, they have 1 score too many or 4 score too few in my notes.

Top cities screen for T84 and T85:

This tells us that CivFr grew their capital to size 9, and that Apolyton whipped their capital (either 7->4 or 8->5), since it has dropped out from the list and Indira has appeared there.

All German cities are size 3 now, except for one which is size 4 - probably their capital.

Claimed land increased with 1 tile. At a guess it is a coastal city expanding to second ring.

Rival total power increased with 23000. Pop changes here were -1000 to Apolyton and 1000 each to the Germans and CFC, leaving 22000 to units, buildings and tech. APTmod data tells us WPC increased their power with 4000 (likely a spearman), the Germans with 5000 (1000 pop and a chariot, at a guess), and CFC with 7000 (1000 pop and Mathematics or an axe?), leaving 6000 to the other teams - likely an axe.

Rival worst increased with 1000, but this might be a case of one team passing another.

GNP analysis of CFC tells us that they can reach 90 adjusted beakers per turn at max research, so I put in Mathematics for them. For the Germans I put in a tentative Writing. I also believe part of the rival worst GNP increase is due to old German terraces doubling in culture - they were built around T55 to T57. Their culture output increased from 16 to 18 last turn, anyway.

With both WPC and the Germans building units again, I doubt they are planning to sign peace soon - especially the Germans must suffer from crippling unit costs.

Sullla's comment last turn on our position in the demos goes double for this turn: we're #1 in all outputs, and #1 or #2 in every category but life expectancy!

ETA: I did a stupid error, and assigned the Spanish score to WPC. WPC didn't gain any score or pop (stayed on 16) on T85, while the Spanish grew 1 pop, to 18.

[NobleHelium]

The land points may be wonky due to the German city raze. When the Germans lost their city, WPC may have taken over tiles from them and thus those land points would not line up with a border pop or a new city being founded.